Beta X-Trainer preparation project
- ErikGustav2
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Re: Beta X-Trainer preparation project
Nice with some 2-stroke talk.
Yes.
failing seals on 2-strokes is a known problem.
Look at this picture. So much smoke from one exhaust.
It comes from the right cylinder. Leaking from the gearbox.
As described above.
=
Another problem can be that there is a broken valve between the oil pump and the cylinder.
(On an engine with pump for 2-stroke oil. Not for pre-mixed)
=> 2 stroke oil is leaking into the crankcase. When the bike is parked.
Very dangerous. If the engine is started, the oil can be pressed up in the cylinder and the piston hits oil. Not fuel /air mix.
Stop.. And the crank rod is bent/broken.
Yes. It has happened to me
Yes.
failing seals on 2-strokes is a known problem.
Look at this picture. So much smoke from one exhaust.
It comes from the right cylinder. Leaking from the gearbox.
As described above.
=
Another problem can be that there is a broken valve between the oil pump and the cylinder.
(On an engine with pump for 2-stroke oil. Not for pre-mixed)
=> 2 stroke oil is leaking into the crankcase. When the bike is parked.
Very dangerous. If the engine is started, the oil can be pressed up in the cylinder and the piston hits oil. Not fuel /air mix.
Stop.. And the crank rod is bent/broken.
Yes. It has happened to me
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Richard Simpson Mark II
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Re: Beta X-Trainer preparation project
My four-stroke riding brothers call it the X-Cheater!
It wouldn't be first choice as a do it all bike, but in Cornwall many of the lanes are actual trials sections.
It compensates for my ever-declining skills...and when the going gets tough...the tough get going!
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Richard Simpson Mark II
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- Snaf MKII
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Re: Beta X-Trainer preparation project
But one of those is on an XR650Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: ↑Mon Oct 06, 2025 8:33 pm
My four-stroke riding brothers call it the X-Cheater!
- garyboy
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Re: Beta X-Trainer preparation project
XR650 .. quite a different beast .. almost the opposite of an Xtrainer? possibly.
I remember, 1970s maybe, or '60s .. a mate had BSA 600 ot 650? .. it seemed Huge and powerful.. and British. A living legend.
I had just bought a new shiny 2T .. suzuki 250.
What a difference.. it was starting to make the BSA look like a dinosaur.. a revered one, mind.
It looked like it was the beginning of the end of the four strokes. But it wasn't.. the racing moguls saw to that .... but it Was the beginning of the end of British bike dominance.
Now .. its the Chinese taking over from the userper Japanese
I remember, 1970s maybe, or '60s .. a mate had BSA 600 ot 650? .. it seemed Huge and powerful.. and British. A living legend.
I had just bought a new shiny 2T .. suzuki 250.
What a difference.. it was starting to make the BSA look like a dinosaur.. a revered one, mind.
It looked like it was the beginning of the end of the four strokes. But it wasn't.. the racing moguls saw to that .... but it Was the beginning of the end of British bike dominance.
Now .. its the Chinese taking over from the userper Japanese
- ErikGustav2
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Re: Beta X-Trainer preparation project
That is easy on a single cylinder engine.Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: ↑Mon Oct 06, 2025 8:54 pm Engine is out now and going off to be rebuilt tomorrow!
If you have 2 or 3 cylinders.....
Well. The sealing on the and of the crankshaft are easy to change.
But on a triple..... There are seals also between the cylinders. On the Crankshaft.
So you have to take apart the whole crank.
Replace seals + bearings.
And put it all together.
It requires tools and knowledge that very few have.
And it is expensive.....
=
Seals get dry and hard by time. Especially if the engine is not used. Start it every year. So the seals get some oil
Last edited by ErikGustav2 on Thu Oct 09, 2025 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Richard Simpson Mark II
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Re: Beta X-Trainer preparation project
Dropped the engine off at Acme Motorcycles in Cradley yesterday. An incredible place.
Scored 9/10 in the proprietor's 'identify every bike in my collection' quiz with added questions on the easier bikes. He's got everything there from a 1914 Rex to 1970s Rokons...and that's just the makes beginning with 'R'.
Pulled the head off the engine while we were there...the bore looks in pretty good shape, and the oil had all been ejected from the combustion chamber.
I'm nevertheless going for a 'back to zero hours' rebuild, new electofusion bore, new piston & ring, new crank, new bearings, all new seals, refurb powervalve, etc.
He reckons the unusual bolts I found on the engine may be anti-tamper bolts installed at the factory...he thought it was unlikley that the engine had ever been open.
Ready in 3 weeks, hopefully.
Scored 9/10 in the proprietor's 'identify every bike in my collection' quiz with added questions on the easier bikes. He's got everything there from a 1914 Rex to 1970s Rokons...and that's just the makes beginning with 'R'.
Pulled the head off the engine while we were there...the bore looks in pretty good shape, and the oil had all been ejected from the combustion chamber.
I'm nevertheless going for a 'back to zero hours' rebuild, new electofusion bore, new piston & ring, new crank, new bearings, all new seals, refurb powervalve, etc.
He reckons the unusual bolts I found on the engine may be anti-tamper bolts installed at the factory...he thought it was unlikley that the engine had ever been open.
Ready in 3 weeks, hopefully.
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Richard Simpson Mark II
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Re: Beta X-Trainer preparation project
He had 3 different variations of the Suzuki 250 twin, including one Japan Domestic Market one with an electric start.garyboy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 07, 2025 11:45 am XR650 .. quite a different beast .. almost the opposite of an Xtrainer? possibly.
I remember, 1970s maybe, or '60s .. a mate had BSA 600 ot 650? .. it seemed Huge and powerful.. and British. A living legend.
I had just bought a new shiny 2T .. suzuki 250.
What a difference.. it was starting to make the BSA look like a dinosaur.. a revered one, mind.
It looked like it was the beginning of the end of the four strokes. But it wasn't.. the racing moguls saw to that .... but it Was the beginning of the end of British bike dominance.
Now .. its the Chinese taking over from the userper Japanese
When the Suzuki Super Six 250 landed in the UK, BSA purchased one for evaluation. Jeff Smith, BSA development engineer and World MX champion conducted an evaluation of it against the BSA C25 Barracuda 250, and ruled it superior to the British machine in every respect, with performance at least comparable to a British 500 four-stroke twin but with greater comfort and reliability.
He was summoned to the director's office...not to be thanked for his efforts and told to go and develop something better, but to be admonished for his negativity and lack of loyalty.
"We have got the Japanese licked" he was told.
Thus perished the British motorcycle industry.
- garyboy
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Re: Beta X-Trainer preparation project
Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: ↑Wed Oct 08, 2025 9:35 amInteresting little story .. though not so little for the industry.garyboy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 07, 2025 11:45 am XR650 .. quite a different beast .. almost the opposite of an Xtrainer? possibly.
He had 3 different variations of the Suzuki 250 twin, including one Japan Domestic Market one with an electric start.
When the Suzuki Super Six 250 landed in the UK, BSA purchased one for evaluation. Jeff Smith, BSA development engineer and World MX champion conducted an evaluation of it against the BSA C25 Barracuda 250, and ruled it superior to the British machine in every respect, with performance at least comparable to a British 500 four-stroke twin but with greater comfort and reliability.
He was summoned to the director's office...not to be thanked for his efforts and told to go and develop something better, but to be admonished for his negativity and lack of loyalty.
"We have got the Japanese licked" he was told.
Thus perished the British motorcycle industry.
I remember the thinking at the time was that the Japanese were not capable of inovation or good design thinking .. as they lacked the left side of the brain functioning .. just the one side. True Story. Unbelievable !! 2 right sides? lol.
I wondered about that for many years ... and now, 50 years later .. I am beginning to think that maybe they were Wrong. lol.
I suppose I just believed everything everyone said .. not realising that people were telling lies, to put their competetors down.
Now .. I question everyting .. too much in fact.. as I now take a negative view of mankind. A shame.
What I remember most about the suzukis were their impossibly high reving, the incredibly smooth delivery, and the very shiny glittery stuff.
I'd forgotten they had a kickstart .. but it was so light and easy to use, and always started first time .. second time on rare occassions.
The brakes were dangerously poor, and of course the tyres were too hard a material .. not like on the British bikes, which had real rubber, lol.
I saw a GT250 a few years ago at Bridgend, Thunderroad .. it looked so dated .. and small. I never thought it would age .. but compared to present day monsters with abundant technology....
Before I bought mine, a mate had a Supersix .. I seem to remember it was less capacity than the 250?
He stripped it appart, and it lay like that, in bits, for a few years .. then just disappeared.
Of course .. the GT 250 had Six Gears .. a new thing in those days .. and still a novelty in these times, for some bikes .. Suzuki 400?.
- garyboy
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Re: Beta X-Trainer preparation project
Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: ↑Wed Oct 08, 2025 9:27 am Dropped the engine off at Acme Motorcycles in Cradley yesterday. An incredible place.
Scored 9/10 in the proprietor's 'identify every bike in my collection' quiz with added questions on the easier bikes. He's got everything there from a 1914 Rex to 1970s Rokons...and that's just the makes beginning with 'R'.
Pulled the head off the engine while we were there...the bore looks in pretty good shape, and the oil had all been ejected from the combustion chamber.
I'm nevertheless going for a 'back to zero hours' rebuild, new electofusion bore, new piston & ring, new crank, new bearings, all new seals, refurb powervalve, etc.
He reckons the unusual bolts I found on the engine may be anti-tamper bolts installed at the factory...he thought it was unlikley that the engine had ever been open.
Ready in 3 weeks, hopefully.
did you identify a bleep bleep Roadrunner there too, Richard,?
I can understand you going for the full build.
I would probably have gone for the minimal repair, and original piston and bore .. but nice to have All new.
Are you looking forward to the return? ... just wondering, lol.
