To quarantine or not?

[chunky butt]

Talking to my French neighbours this morning and apparently north of France and especially Paris is seeing a surge of infections.

[Tramp]

The reasons for surges is the dumb assets aren't following social distancing and a sweaty nightclub or crowded bar ain't good for your health....

[daveuprite]

FYI. France seem to have had 48 more cases in the last 14 days than the UK.
Cherry picking ‘facts’ to suit an argument/gripe is shoddy.

If Spain were allegedly so proactive with their lockdown, why is their infection rate so huge?

Having a one nation hatchet job is a personal grudge, not a reasoned assessment of the whole situation, even accepting the UK’s high figures.

What's shoddy is mindless defense of a broken system when all the evidence is there to prove the incompetence. If the UK government had done a good job over CV19 I would have nothing to criticize and I would gladly shut up. My kind of criticism comes from a desire for improvement, not a grudge! Patriotism or party loyalty, or whatever it is, that merely tolerates failure is completely misplaced. My 88 year-old mum is shielding in Dorset and I want her government to get its bloody act together so that she's safe to go out again one day! Is that really too much to ask?

Over recent months, the UK as a whole has performed consistently worse than its European neighbours. Most people are interested in how their country is doing and how their government is tackling things, compared to others, not in excusing their poor leadership. On WHO data, the UK consistently under-performs. You crack on and disprove that if can. But you can't.

If you want to do a region by region, or town by town analysis of infection across the continent, you will of course find anomalies that buck the national state-wide trends. Barcelona appears to be one right now. Leicester is definitely one. Everyone seems to have a hotspot, or many, including France. Dealing with those as they arise could work - IF your track, trace and regional lockdown procedures are superb and extremely quick, and if you have an obedient and compliant population. None of that is true of the UK right now. It's only partially true in France and would seem to be more true in places like Singapore etc.

If you can demonstrate that the tories in the UK are getting the covid response right, I will be all ears and look forward to reading your thorough, sourced and demonstrated justification and defense of their actions/inactions. But if I were you I wouldn't waste your time - it can't be done.

And similarly I will not attempt to defend the French state for its response, which has been good at times, not at others, and currently at a dangerous R1.3

[Snaf MKII]

Four of us were planning on riding the TET in Spain for the first two weeks in September and have already booked the ferry One option we have got is to catch the ferry to Spain, ride the 70 miles to the French border and ride the TET back up through France. As far as I can see there are no travel restriction between France and Spain. Our ferry out is on the 30th August, arriving on the 1st September and we were planning on coming back to the UK on 16th September. I've tried to find out if we would need to self isolate on returning to the UK even though it will be more than 14 days after leaving Spain but can't find an answer. Does anyone on the forum know the answer? Cheers Rich

This a month away, many things may change by then, you may not even be allowed to enter Spain/France or even leave your home by then. Spain is currently on the list of countries to which only "essential travel" should be considered, again this may change by the end of August.
I think you're going to have to play it by ear much nearer the time but your proposed idea seems sensible enough.
To directly answer your question regarding when and if to isolate the Gov.Uk guidance is as follows. The list is exempt countries from isolation.

"You’ll still need to self-isolate if you’ve visited or made a ‘transit stop’ in the previous 14 days in any country that is not on the list. A ‘transit stop’ is a stop where passengers can get on or off a coach, ferry, train or plane. Your ticket should say if a stop is a transit stop.
The 14 days begin from the date you left that country."

[RichP]

Four of us were planning on riding the TET in Spain for the first two weeks in September and have already booked the ferry One option we have got is to catch the ferry to Spain, ride the 70 miles to the French border and ride the TET back up through France. As far as I can see there are no travel restriction between France and Spain. Our ferry out is on the 30th August, arriving on the 1st September and we were planning on coming back to the UK on 16th September. I've tried to find out if we would need to self isolate on returning to the UK even though it will be more than 14 days after leaving Spain but can't find an answer. Does anyone on the forum know the answer? Cheers Rich

This a month away, many things may change by then, you may not even be allowed to enter Spain/France or even leave your home by then. Spain is currently on the list of countries to which only "essential travel" should be considered, again this may change by the end of August.
I think you're going to have to play it by ear much nearer the time but your proposed idea seems sensible enough.
To directly answer your question regarding when and if to isolate the Gov.Uk guidance is as follows. The list is exempt countries from isolation.

"You’ll still need to self-isolate if you’ve visited or made a ‘transit stop’ in the previous 14 days in any country that is not on the list. A ‘transit stop’ is a stop where passengers can get on or off a coach, ferry, train or plane. Your ticket should say if a stop is a transit stop.
The 14 days begin from the date you left that country."

Thanks for everyone's comments and I realise that this is a very fluid situation, I was just wondering how things stood at the moment if nothing else changes. Looking at the above guidance, we wouldn't have to isolate when we get back which is better for a couple of our group as they are self-employed. Hopefully Brittany ferries will cancel the crossing and we can re-book another time. Unfortunately, at the minute they are saying that the crossing will go ahead.

[Tramp]

Richp....

If it was me and the departure was like next week.... I'd go out via santander ride east do a bit of pyrenees cross over into France and do some of that...

But be aware that the Spanish police do have a high presence on the major routes and come Sept it'll be end of Spanish hols so things will quieten down... The Spanish restrict movement, food etc and you are checked.. Its not like blighty... France is okay movement wise they really don't care....

You never know if and when you may become infected.... Be careful and all will be fine wipe everything or use your own plates, cutlery etc.... Yes it's a ball ache but you are using known clean items.... Think first contact who touched it last....

[Jak*]

My motorbike insurance company, Bikesure has just confirmed that my bike insurance is still valid in Europe regardless of quarantine rules. Cheers

[Elmer J Fudd]

FYI. France seem to have had 48 more cases in the last 14 days than the UK.
Cherry picking ‘facts’ to suit an argument/gripe is shoddy.

If Spain were allegedly so proactive with their lockdown, why is their infection rate so huge?

Having a one nation hatchet job is a personal grudge, not a reasoned assessment of the whole situation, even accepting the UK’s high figures.

Wow, Blinkers, earplugs and eye masks must be compulsory in your house. 48 cases is nothing with a population of over 65 million especially over two weeks. That really is clutching at straws.

I have a different perspective on this, being a Scot. The UK death figures you see quoted are really for England only, so few deaths are occurring in the other UK nations; so you have to wonder why? Incompetence of course in the answer. We have had zero deaths in Scotland for 11 (ELEVEN) consecutive days. I don't know the figures for elsewhere, but this proves that a proper lock-down strategy has worked (so far) here. Bobo the Clown and his circus have been, are, and will remain incompetent fools, FACT.

The UK should, as mainly an island, have been able to isolate, contain and treat this virus very easily following the initial spike. Only the parts where decisions were able to be taken locally has this worked and even then despite Bobo's interference. The daily figures given out are for the UK (at Westminster's behest), so they look better for England) cynical playing of politics and "cherry picking" misleading the country.

To respond to another point made about not being the time to reflect, that is correct. We can't reflect, because as a UK, we are still in it. We are still in it due to Bobo and many more people will die directly because of his stupidity.

As for travel, I have taken a punt on some flights to Paris at the end of February as they were dirt cheap (£60) return and it is the (proposed date) for the six nations FR Vs SCO. I may or may not go, depends on the status at the time and whether I feel safe or not. No way am I going abroad this year, probably not even over Hadrian's wall.

[DavidS]

I believe Dave said our infection rate was the worst in Europe (i really can’t be bothered to double check through all the diatribe) so I was merely pointing out that, from the website my wife found, France actually had a higher rate than the UK over the last 14 days. It doesn’t matter if it’s 1 or 1000, it still contradicts his claim.

[daveuprite]

Hoorah!! DavidS wins on a technicality. For just the most recent days of the pandemic, a handful of other European countries have suffered outbreaks that mean they have temporarily exceeded the UK's dismal rate.

This sits against a background of the UK losing more people to the disease per million population than anywhere in the world where the data is collected in a similar way. Yes, even including the U.S.! And the UK can also boast more deaths than any other European country except Russia (most of which sits within Asia anyway).

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... y-country/

So nitpicking over the UK's performance being just briefly less embarrassing than elsewhere is a bit sad really. Like praising a guy for beating his wife with a hammer for the last few days rather than the usual pickaxe he's been using for the 3 months before...