EU. In or out?

[daveuprite]

The vote was clear - LEAVE - no ifs no buts. If parliament had accepted this and worked together Brussels would have listened more intently. BUT, the negotiators are protecting a deeply flawed system that is in trouble with a significant number of its members - strong arm tactics have been used to force member states back into line, they have seen this chink in the UK negotiating position and used it to the best of their ability. Their attitude has been and is, to punish the UK - their biggest fear is that we will be successful and this will fuel more attempts to either leave or change its direction of travel.
Once we are out, France, Germany, Spain and Italy will need to sort a deal with us, their economies will suffer significantly if they lose the UK export market. Had our government been united and it was clear that we were not going to be bullied by the Brussels Eurocrats, they would have influenced the negotiating stance.

Wow! You don't hear this kind of delusional psychology so much recently. Well OK, there are few bizarre individuals seeking notoriety. Johnson, Hannon, Rees-Mogg etc. But it just goes to show that, for some, no amount of changes in circumstances can alter their embedded psychology. Sadly it's not all that surprising I suppose - it's a measure of the extent to which empiricism is being usurped by blind faith. If it was just some kind of theoretical exercise it would be interesting and maybe amusing. But this delusion is not simply an act of personal self-harm; we are all dragged down by it regardless.

[Spike941]

Correct me if I’m wrong someone, but was the leaving mechanism already written in stone, something we’d already signed up to, and that the EU made clear on day one, and have continued to do so. Where’s the bullying in that?

[Jak*]

United have just sacked Mourinho for failing to achieve success, after two and a half years and spending £400 million. I suspect May’s failure to deliver success has cost the country considerably more over a similar period.
Cheers Jak

[roberteagle6]

Delusional ! Daveupwrite ! Germany -we are their second largest export market along with China. Germanie's economy relies upon exports which equal 40% of its GDP. France exports 30% of its GDP 25% of this to the UK - Spain is the same. It would be in their interests to find an equitable deal - just plain common sense !

[OB1]

The vote was clear - LEAVE - no ifs no buts.

Yeah... we've heard this a lot from those that want to leave.

Are you happy that free trade, as it is now, will come to an end and that its replacement could take a decade to sort out?

Are you happy that your driving license may not be valid throughout Europe and that you may have to get a European endorsement?

Are you happy that, just after finally getting roaming charges removed, they may be reinstated once we leave?

Are you happy that the UK will no longer be included in the Europe-wide GPS project which will mean that we have to create our own?

I could go on...

One thing that the politicians keep on saying is "This is/is not the Brexit that the people voted for". What a load of bollix. None of them know what kind of Brexit people voted for because that wasn't part of the question.

In or out was the choice and the people were never qualified to make the decision: that's the reason why we have politicians.

[Jak*]

I would not question your figures Robert, but I would assume that some of the shortfall in EU exports will be sorted out internally. E.g some of the goods that the French buy from us they will buy from the Germans etc. That was after all part of the purpose of the EU, to create a large internal market. BMW for instance could move Mini production to Germany and Renault move Nissan from Sunderland to France.
How many of our imports from the EU would be considered vital or necessary? For instance medicines or spares for BMW cars etc. How much extra would we be prepared to pay? How quickly could we find replacements. E.g the crankshafts used in Triumph motorcycles built in Hinckley are forged in Spain. If a deal isn’t sorted quickly then Triumph either pay a premium, source another supplier (apparently there is not one in the UK) or possibly shift the UK production to one of their other factories. I don’t know what the answer is, but I suspect from what they have said, a lot of what is left of the manufacturing industry in the UK, much of which is foreign owned, will move abroad. This will of course leave a lot of unemployed workers, who no doubt will be running to fill the vacancies in the crop picking and care industries left by EU migrants. They will have to take a massive pay cut, or we pay a lot more, but it will all be worth it to get our sovereignty back.
If the Leave campaign had gone any realistic concrete proposals to sort out any of these issues I would have been tempted to vote for them. Unfortunately they had no answers at the last referendum and two and a half years later they still do not seem to have found any.
The performance of our politicians makes me question the value of our sovereignty.
Cheers Jak

[Redmurty]

cheers Spud

[scutty]

Delusional ! Daveupwrite ! Germany -we are their second largest export market along with China. Germanie's economy relies upon exports which equal 40% of its GDP. France exports 30% of its GDP 25% of this to the UK - Spain is the same. It would be in their interests to find an equitable deal - just plain common sense !

Here you go, %age of country exports that go to the UK - (source www.tradingeconomics.com)

• Germany - 6%

• France - 6.7%

• Spain - 3.8%

• Italy - 5.2%

• Portugal - 6.8%

The EU exports 14% to the UK compared to all other exports whereas the UK exports 56% to Europe. I guess the big question is how much of the UK exports can only come from the UK and how much will move to EU suppliers once we leave. THe reverse is also true, of those imports we take, how much can be sourced in the UK and how will tarffis impact the price/supply chain.

[scutty]

I should add, before someone posts it here, I have never met anyone yet who suggests hard exit to WTO rules who actually knows what that means and what the impact would be. I ask every time I see someone mention it. I even asked Michael Gove at a local event a few months ago; shocker - he didn't answer.

(I have read up on it myself but I like to test people who propose things but don't know what it means)

[Tonibe63]

I'm pleased to see that whilst this passionate and divisive process takes place that ISIS have stopped killing people, migrants have decided not to move around the World, crime is under control, our old or sick people are being cared for and our society is not heading for another financial crash ........ .

We argue about subjects fed to us by the media and 'experts', the same media/experts who said:- there are weapons of mass destruction which justifies us going to war
Planes will fall out the sky on millennium eve
The Banks are safe and not about to collapse
Etc, etc, etc, blah, blah .....
They will only feed us what is in their own best interest ie.control and money.

Nobody knows what is going to happen any more than they can predict next weeks lottery numbers but we all choose to repeat what experts say on whatever media channels we choose to read/watch/research because the media/experts wouldn't lie would they ..... go figure .