EU. In or out?

[AndyB]

According to my 85 year old aunt it's because we've all got too much money and it's easy to spend it from our living rooms. If we haven't got the money then we can fill in a credit application while still sat on our fat arses and the chances are there won't be any delay in getting whatever it is you've ordered.

To feed this insatiable desire to spend money online or at massive retail parks we need a countrywide network of distribution centres but to avoid having to ramp up the cost of the goods the labour employed there needs to be both cheap and flexible. Well the average school leaver with his or her degree in toad migration across the Fens doesn't want that so the employers look somewhere else.

One of her most cutting comments was reserved for parents who buy their kids cars because that isn't going to encourage them to work which means another opening for a migrant.

Very astute words from a woman who has seen a lot of changes over the years. She reckons it's all too easy and we (collectively) opened the door to migrant labour by demanding more and wanting to do less to get it. She also said she'd be voting to stay because it's too late to try and persuade anybody that we're skint in this country and the only way to reduce immigration from other EU countries is to improve their home countries :pinch:

I was her taxi driver yesterday and she had comments for everyone and I didn't escape because by going to Eastern Europe on my motorbike I only spread the image that we're a country that has everything. She advised me to put a Germany sticker on the bike rather than a GB one and to tell everyone who would listen that Germany is the best place to live :laugh:

[daytona-supersport]

This article gives an interesting and valid female perspective on the EU and health providers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016 ... know-best/

PS,
As predicted Greece is being let off its debts with the EU picking up the tab. :laugh: :laugh: I think the EU is bloody brilliant, a complete and utter balls up in so many ways. If you did not laugh about it you would cry.

Eurogroup ministers agreed to release 10.3 billion euros in new funds for Greece in recognition of painful fiscal reforms pushed through by Alexis Tsipras's, the prime minister, subject to some final technical tweaks.

But a bigger step forward was a deal in which the euro zone agreed to offer Athens debt relief in 2018 if that is necessary to meet agreed criteria on its payments burden. That was enough to secure an agreement from the International Monetary Fund to again join the euro zone in funding the bailout of Greece.

http://www.cityam.com/241889/greek-debt ... bn-bailout

[scutty]

the only way to reduce immigration from other EU countries is to improve their home countries

Yes, exactly that - that is the whole basis of the EU. Is it such a problem to aspire to a Europe where each country is successful and flourishes? Why would we not want eastern and Mediterranean countries to be as modern and successful as western Europe and Scandinavia?

If we stick to the little Englander ethos of 'we're so Great and we certainly better than all of you' then more and more people will aspire to live here. Do you think people from the beautiful Black Sea coast of Romania come here for shit jobs, 6-in-a-house living and our piss poor summers? They see a difference in their living standards and aspire to a better one (like we all do). The best way to help them is to help make their country stronger, wealthier, fairer - more like western European countries. Maybe then people in England will aspire to live there, like they do in France or Spain or Tuscany?

[dave448]

mmm ..all this sounds familiar... :unsure:

Millions of people moved during the industrial revolution. Some simply moved from a village to a town in the hope of finding work whilst others moved from one country to another in search of a better way of life. Some had no choice, the were transported as a punishment for a crime.
The main reason for moving home during the 19th century was to find work. On one hand this involved migration from the countryside to the growing industrial cities, on the other it involved movement from one country, in this case Britain, to another. Poor working conditions, housing and sanitation led to many people opting to emigrate. The British at the time controlled a massive empire including America, Canada, South Africa and Australia and people soon started to move to these countries in search of a new life.
These people would save money and seek assistance from others to pay for the journey, by boat, to these new lands. Some of the reasons for this desire to move are highlighted in this letter written in 1837:
"we take the liberty of writing to you again upon the subject of emigration to America for we are quite tired of this country... For the thought of being ushered into the workhouse with our wives and children and the miseries of starvation and poverty make us quite tired of our native land. For we know that we cannot be worse off than we already are."

[Crossrutted]

the only way to reduce immigration from other EU countries is to improve their home countries

Yes, exactly that - that is the whole basis of the EU. Is it such a problem to aspire to a Europe where each country is successful and flourishes? Why would we not want eastern and Mediterranean countries to be as modern and successful as western Europe and Scandinavia?

If we stick to the little Englander ethos of 'we're so Great and we certainly better than all of you' then more and more people will aspire to live here. Do you think people from the beautiful Black Sea coast of Romania come here for shit jobs, 6-in-a-house living and our piss poor summers? They see a difference in their living standards and aspire to a better one (like we all do). The best way to help them is to help make their country stronger, wealthier, fairer - more like western European countries. Maybe then people in England will aspire to live there, like they do in France or Spain or Tuscany?

Whilst I agree with the underlying sentiment, the problem with it is demonstrated by the Greek fiasco.
The EU allowed Greece to join, loaned Greece billions to improve itself - which it promptly spent on a ten year party, virtually zero tax rates and super pensions!
When Greece came crawling back, begging for more, the EU had to bail it out, again, to avoid Greece going bankrupt.

So, until the "improvements" can be administered and enforced, what's the point?
The wealthy countries may as well stay wealthy, tell the scroungers "the Bank opens manana".

(btw, I will be voting to remain)

[CRAIGREVO]

I've actually had a massive change of heart involving the EU after buying tyres for my bike.
My mate told me about Tyre leader a German company where I could get them considerably cheaper so I did. B)

Obviously having seen the personal savings I can make as part of being in the EU Id be mad to vote leave now. (thumbs)

[AndyB]

It doesn't matter if the wealthier countries quadruple their contributions because they'll never be able to reduce the distance between the wealthiest countries and the poorest ones. I can understand some reluctance to give up something they've only just been given but at some point the improvements made to their standard of living should change a country that is a nett beneficiary to a nett contributor to the EU cash pile. When did that last happen?

[Scott_rider]

^...Oponeo Tyres are probably cheaper and they are based in West London :huh:

(But they do ship the tyres in from anywhere where they can buy them cheaply in the EU :laugh: ).

[dave448]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36373649 B)

[scutty]

It doesn't matter if the wealthier countries quadruple their contributions because they'll never be able to reduce the distance between the wealthiest countries and the poorest ones. I can understand some reluctance to give up something they've only just been given but at some point the improvements made to their standard of living should change a country that is a nett beneficiary to a nett contributor to the EU cash pile. When did that last happen?

Ireland is probably the closest to that transition and did actually become a nett contributor in 2009 before the Americans fu*cked the world banking system up.