Any wonder they want us off the trails?

[Scott_rider]

[quote="Crossrutted" [/quote]

If it is 4x4 use, it's nothing to do with "us" then is it?

I fully support the exclusion of 4x4 from Green Lanes, many TRF groups campaign hard for "bike only" amendments to TRO's.

We all know bikes cannot create the type of damage the 4x4 morons cause.

For so long as we align ourselves with the 4x4 lobby, we are like Turkeys voting for Christmas.[/quote]

I agree but everytime it's mentioned the argument seems to be that we've all got to stick together (all motor users of trails). That seems daft to me, kind of like supporting the local yobs in your pub when the neighbours want to get it closed down because they cause a load of aggro and you just want to go there for a quiet pint. Bizzare :unsure: .

[AndyB]

I hope the 4x4 groups don't actively campaign for bikes to be excluded on the grounds that some are noisy, wear MX kit and look as if they're out for a bit of race practice.

Unless everyone who rides off road joins a group like the TRF so that they've got more money and can afford to fight against closures on their own then alienating the only other people that are trying to keep lanes open is pretty shortsighted.

[Crossrutted]

I hope the 4x4 groups don't actively campaign for bikes to be excluded on the grounds that some are noisy, wear MX kit and look as if they're out for a bit of race practice.

Unless everyone who rides off road joins a group like the TRF so that they've got more money and can afford to fight against closures on their own then alienating the only other people that are trying to keep lanes open is pretty shortsighted.

No it is not shortsighted. Bikes can leave little or no evidence of their passing, no 4 wheeler can do that.

In addition we've all seen 4x4 idiots purposely getting stuck in order to winch themselves out, often damaging fences, gates and trees in the process.
Do you want to be associated with that? I don't!


Eventually, in this crowded island, the pressure groups will succeed in excluding 4x4s except those with legitimate reason - ie farmers.

We need to differentiate ourselves from them. Quickly......

[Scott_rider]

I agree with Crossrutted.

As I say, I like 4x4s, but I cant' see how aligning ourselves with them just because they've got deep pockets makes any sense.

[mrdelmonti]

As someone that has been a part of the 4x4 community for a while as well as being a biker I think that unfortunately it's the actions of the few knobs that grab the attention, I do my best to try and educate people but it can be very hard.

At this time of year I tend to avoid taking the 4x4 on lanes they're simply too soft to recover quickly, if I want a challenge I'll go to a pay & play site as will ever other 4x4 owner I know but there are people out there that either don't care or don't know any better.

I've realised that in all likelyhood I'm going to lose the use of the lanes in the 4x4 which is sad but I don't see any other outcome. People need to be educated and we need to come down hard on the people that don't listen but that just won't happen.

I'm going to need someone to guide me in taking my bike laning as I just cba with the negative image of 4x4s on lanes anymore. The only place I'll be taking the Landcruiser is pay & play sites from now on.

[Mike54]

If we say we don't want 4x4's on lanes that makes us no better than the PDNPA. We all know that it's water damage which causes the most problems in terms of trails, but that not withstanding, councils have an OBLIGATION to maintain these routes in the same way that they are obliged to maintain tarmac roads. So ultimately, however they are damaged, it needs to be sorted.

BOATS and UCRs etc need to remain in use by a number of different user groups, we can't say one is better or worse than another, and we do need to stay onside with GLASS and other 4x4 groups, not doing so would be daft really. The main point is that PDNPA want to close lanes because they don't want to maintain them, and for political reasons ie pressure from NIMBYs etc. This is our heritage and must remain open for all user groups, we can't stoop to their level no matter what an individuals opinion is of any one user group over another.

The initial shot on the thread - there is tarmac just behind the camera position, many many people park cars on that, trucks, vans etc. I've even seen a refuse truck sitting there so in terms of "damage" to a trail which could be attributed to a usergroup, with apologies to the OP, I think thats a bad example to be honest

[dubber68]

If we say we don't want 4x4's on lanes that makes us no better than the PDNPA. We all know that it's water damage which causes the most problems in terms of trails, but that not withstanding, councils have an OBLIGATION to maintain these routes in the same way that they are obliged to maintain tarmac roads. So ultimately, however they are damaged, it needs to be sorted.

BOATS and UCRs etc need to remain in use by a number of different user groups, we can't say one is better or worse than another, and we do need to stay onside with GLASS and other 4x4 groups, not doing so would be daft really. The main point is that PDNPA want to close lanes because they don't want to maintain them, and for political reasons ie pressure from NIMBYs etc. This is our heritage and must remain open for all user groups, we can't stoop to their level no matter what an individuals opinion is of any one user group over another.

The initial shot on the thread - there is tarmac just behind the camera position, many many people park cars on that, trucks, vans etc. I've even seen a refuse truck sitting there so in terms of "damage" to a trail which could be attributed to a usergroup, with apologies to the OP, I think thats a bad example to be honest

There is no tarmac and no dwelling even close to where I took that shoot and yet again we try to make excuses for the idiots. Please just condemn that type of behavior and acknowledge that it happens or you will lose any credibility.

[Crossrutted]

We all know that it's water damage which causes the most problems in terms of trails, but that not withstanding, councils have an OBLIGATION to maintain these routes in the same way that they are obliged to maintain tarmac roads. So ultimately, however they are damaged, it needs to be sorted.

Sorry Mike, it is not ONLY water damage - I cannot believe you have never seen the damage some 4x4s cause.
I have seen a pack of Landies purposely and repeatedly drive back & forth through a particular section, churning up the area to the sides as well as the main track. This was done in front of a number of dog walking locals. Once the idiots had moved on, the lane was virtually impassable on foot or horseback.

Not surprisingly that lane is now lost. Nearly every weekend I see this kind of activity.

Also, as you point out, the councils are obligated to repair & maintain the lanes. So why would I want to support anyone gratuitously damaging them, which often leads to TRO's or worse?

It's time to kick the rats off the ship!

[Tonibe63]

It's an unsealed road that has been subjected to a very wet winter. The tracks in the picture don't appear to be outside the course of the lane so what is the problem?
I've seen much much worse surface damage done by bikes on wet muddy lanes, wet ground damaged by livestock and sodden ground ripped up by Farmers.
Let he who has not been stuck in a muddy rut and span a wheel cast the first stone.
It happens, get over it.

[Richard Simpson]

I recall Andy Tasker putting a link to a BBC programme called 'Inside Out' about damage that 4x4 drivers were doing to Exmoor.

The BBC couldn't find any, so the park wardens ('rangers' ha ha ha) did it for them in their 'look at me, I'm a Ranger' pick-up trucks.

And many years before that, a leading anti got the BBC along to film the damage that 4x4s were doing to 'his' lane outside his house.

There wasn't any, so the BBC hired a Land Rover and filmed themselves damaging the lane.

When I was young and had mates in the army at the height of the troubles they told me how TV crews would encourage children to throw stones and bottles at them.