What's your views about posting up green lanes and off road stuff?

[Alun]

I can see how it would be handy to have a sub section on this new GPS routes section of the forum for green lanes and the like. But what's the feeling about having this info displayed on a public forum? One option could be to make green lane into members only.

[moto al]

hi alun good idea ,but watch out we dont piss of some land owners i no up here its getting harder to go off road and we have a freedom of accses law, this dosnt stop land owners blocking the trails ,cheers .alan

[XTrider]

I think that although it would be useful, it would be a bad idea. The minute you post legitimate routes they get hammered. Thus causing the council, land owners to try and get them closed. Seen it happen in the Dales where big groups would use the same trails over and over and treat it as a big motocross loop. Yep everyone has a right to use them but the more popular and more damage they get the quicker they will get closed.
My advice would be to join the TRF.

[Louisdut]

I think that although it would be useful, it would be a bad idea. The minute you post legitimate routes they get hammered. Thus causing the council, land owners to try and get them closed. Seen it happen in the Dales where big groups would use the same trails over and over and treat it as a big motocross loop. Yep everyone has a right to use them but the more popular and more damage they get the quicker they will get closed.
My advice would be to join the TRF.

Unfortunately my opinion has changed in the last few years and must agree with the above post that local knowledge is best

Unpaved roads (green lanes) are prone to temporary road closures, if posting routes here you may be sending someone down a closed road.

Maybe a list of run leaders and the areas they are knowledgable in would be a better, I would be willing to take out ABR members.

Otherwise contact the TRF in the area you intend to ride.

Louis

sent by iPhone

[ipswichbiker]

Surely if someone has the brain cells to login to a forum and search through posts they are equally able to open an OS map electronic or on paper and look at the little cross BOAT symbols. The data is already in the public domain its not like a state secret. Im open to being told otherwise or proven wrong but this was my first thought on the idea.

Could a members only area be linked to magazine subscription?

[James691]

I'd have no issue with a public road being shown on a public forum. Due to some of the laws that I am now reading as part of this it looks like it would be also down to the Local Authority, Forestry Commision and DEFRA on what is going on at any time with that unpaved road.

I'm VERY new to all this and will bow my head to the voices of experience while I do my own investigation into the legality and local attitudes of riders on these roads.

There are already sites, such as the TRF Tral Riders Fellowship that have this information, if it is there then I see no reason why it should not also be on here if Adventure Riders show an interest in the matter.

I'm interested to get some 'off road' tho it is legally a road, skill before I venture off to further afield. Even with my limited riding I have found that countries have various standards of 'road' as part of the main trunk system and how to navigate around this mud track of an open road is of great use.

If section was to open I would suggest a header thread on the laws and where to find permission along with a guide of conduct for these routes.

[Tramp]

I`m With james on that one, some people dont belong to the Trf and down our wauy they dont like big bikes joing the ride outs:evil: .

A disclamer is yes important and open to members is also good idea as is a breif outline to what is leagal aka Boat [byeway open to all traffic] and also people should be aware that most councils are always willing to help just phone them on the situation of trails...

But even then they can be closed or have restrictions, it is always asking to save travelling to a route and finding it closed wasting the weeekend.

Also agree with Ipswichbiker that " the trails etc info is readily available".

for my input heres a few web sites that have trail routes in conjunction with the ordanace survey mapping.

http://maps.the-hug.net/

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsi ... ta/viewer/

http://www.trf.org.uk/

also the legal stuff:

Trail riding and the law

The following information is a very basic introduction to Trail Riding and the law and should be considered as guidance only. Ultimately it is your responsibility to ensure that you ride legally but we hope that the information provided here will help you to do that.

If you are already a TRF member then you can find a more detailed examination of the topics covered here in the member’s area. Alternatively, you could contact your group Rights of Way Officer.
So, what is trail riding?

Trail riding is an informal recreational activity that involves exploring un-surfaced public roads on road legal motorcycles. It is non competitive and shouldn’t be confused with motor sports such as Trials, Enduro or Motocross. Vehicular access to the countryside is strictly controlled and anyone wishing to ride trails would be well advised to familiarise themselves with basic highway law before venturing off tarmac.
Off- Road or on the Trail?
Many people assume that because trail riders use un-surfaced routes that they are off road. This is incorrect. Trail riding is only legal on public vehicular highways. There is no general right of vehicular access to the countryside in the UK. In fact, using a motor vehicle on private land, without the express permission of the owner is actually a criminal offence. This is covered by section 34. 1(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 which states,

(1) If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle-

(a) On to or upon any common land, moor land or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road.

He is guilty of an offence

Even straying a few metres from an otherwise legal route could get you into serious trouble!
What about Rights of Way?
There are many thousands of miles of public rights of way in England and Wales and some do carry vehicular rights. The vast majority however are footpaths, bridleways or restricted byways. These routes do not normally allow access for motor vehicles and as with private land, it can be a criminal offence to use them. This is covered by section 34. 1(b) of the Road traffic Act 1988 which states,

1) If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle-

(b) On any road being a footpath, a bridleway or restricted byway.

He is guilty of an offence.

Offences of this kind can be dealt with by way of a fixed penalty notice but the maximum possible fine on conviction in court is £1,000. You have been warned!
So where can you legally ride?

The simple answer is on public carriageways. Of course we are all familiar with the tarmac road network but many people are unaware that there is also a small but significant number of un-surfaced public carriageways in this country. It is these un-surfaced carriageways, often referred to as Green Lanes, which trail riders seek out and use.
So how do you find legal green lanes?

Green Lane is a descriptive term and has no legal meaning. There are many un-surfaced tracks and trails in rural areas that could be described as Green Lanes but these may not be legal for public use. Understanding how public vehicular highways are recorded is the key to identifying routes on the ground and staying within the law.
The two common types of un-surfaced Green Lane which do carry public vehicular rights are unsealed unclassified roads and Byways Open to All traffic.A Byway Open to All Traffic (often referred to as a BOAT) is a minor public road which carries rights for vehicular users and all other types of traffic. BOAT's are recorded in a document known as the Definitive Map & Statement. This is the official record of rights of way held by the highway authority (usually the County Council). It will also show footpaths, bridleways and restricted byways. BOATs are recorded alongside non vehicular highways because the law assumes that they are mainly used by walkers or horse riders.
The Wildlife & Countryside Act 1980 defines a Byway Open to All traffic as,

“a way over which the public have a right to use vehicles and all other kinds of traffic but which is used by the public, mainly for the purpose for which footpaths or bridleways are used”

In practice, the public have the same right to use motor vehicles over a way recorded as a BOAT as you are assumed to have on any tarmac road.

An unclassified road is simply a public road which does not have an A, B or C road classification. The majority of unclassified roads are normal tarmac motor roads but there are also a small number which are un-surfaced Green Lanes. These are often referred to as UCR (unclassified county road - an obsolete term) or UUCR (unsealed, unclassified county road).

All unclassified roads (tarmac or otherwise) are recorded on a document known as the List of Streets. This is the official record of all highways that are maintained at public expense and every highway authority should have one.

It is important to realise that the inclusion of a route on the List of Streets is not conclusive evidence that vehicular rights exist!

This is because all pubic rights of way are technically highways so in theory the List of Streets could include footpaths and bridleways. In practice though this is rarely the case but it has led some authorities to question the exact status of their unclassified roads.

It is possible for a route to appear on both the List of Streets and the Definitive Map (so called Dual Status routes). Where this occurs there is a presumption that any motoring rights which may have existed in the past would have been extinguished by recent legislative changes. However, where an unclassified road appears on the List of Street but not on the Definitive Map, it is reasonable to assume that it is a vehicular highway.
There is no offence of using a motor vehicle on an Unclassified Road and the presence or absence of a tarmac is no indication of status.
The Definitive Map, List of Streets and the Ordnance Survey

Both the Definitive Map and the List of Streets are public documents. They may be inspected free of charge at the highway authority offices and should be available on request at any reasonable time. Many authorities now publish their Definitive Map on line so it may be worth checking the relevant county council web site.

Of course there is no substitute for inspecting the original documents but other options do exist. For many years the Ordnance Survey have included public rights of way information on their popular Land Ranger and Explorer series of maps. This includes routes recorded as Byways Open to All Traffic.

Until recently, identifying Unsealed Unclassified Roads was harder but the latest Ordnance Survey maps are know beginning to show them under the heading of “Other Routes with Public Access” or ORPA.

This makes Ordnance Survey mapping an invaluable asset for Trail Riders but caution must be exercised. The status of public highways can change leaving maps out of date. Also, while the depiction of a route as an ORPA clearly implies some form of “public access” it will not in every case indicate vehicular status. Despite obtaining their information direct from highway authorities errors or omissions do occur. So, despite having an enviable reputation for accuracy, an Ordnance Survey map can only ever be considered a guide to the status of a route.

If challenged, or in doubt about the legality of a way, you should always check with the local highway authority who will be able to refer directly to the legal record (the Definitive Map and List of Streets)
Roads Used as Public Paths (or when is a road not a road?)

Many Ordnance Survey maps and quite a few trail riders, still refer to Roads Used as Public Paths or RUPPs. This is an obsolete term. All RUPPs were reclassified as Restricted Byways by the Countryside & Rights of Way Act 2000. Restricted Byway rights include the right to use non mechanically propelled vehicles such as horse and cart but not motor vehicles.

It is possible for motoring rights to exist over a way recorded as a Restricted Byway but proving this is a challenging legal process. There is a general presumption in law that any motoring rights which existed on former RUPPs were extinguished by s67 of the Natural Environment & Rural Communities (NERC) Act 2006. Remember also, that using a motor vehicle on a Restricted Byway, without lawful authority is a specific criminal offence (see s34 RTA 1988 above).
Restrictions and Obstructions

Public highways should not normally be obstructed. In fact, the law considers anything which substantially interferes with the public’s use of a highway to be unlawful. Obstructions, natural or deliberate should always be reported to the highway authority because they have a duty to protect and assert the publics right of access. However, highway authorities also have the power to close Green Lanes for a number of reasons.

The mechanism used to do this is known as a Traffic Regulation Order or TRO. A TRO can be temporary, permanent, year round or seasonal. It can also apply to all, or just some classes of traffic.

Temporary orders are normally used for short term closure and as the title suggests they are time limited. Although they can be extended they do not usually last for more than eighteen months. A temporary TRO is still a legally enforceable closure and failure to comply is an offence. This kind of order does not require a statutory NO MOTOR VEHICLES road sign to be displayed but the regulations do require that the authority erect notices and adequate signage to inform the public that the closure is in force.

Unlike a temporary order a permanent TRO is not time limited and this kind of closure often runs indefinitely. Permanent orders may or may not affect motorcyclists but in any event they must be accompanied by a statutory road sign depicting the classes of traffic that are restricted



Failure to comply with a Traffic Regulation Order is a criminal offence and can attract a fine of up to £1,000.
Summary

BOATs and UUCRs are public roads, this is why you have a right to use them. Of course this also means that they are subject to the same laws as any other road. Bikes and riders must be fully road legal (tax, insurance, MOT etc) and you must ride in a safe and considerate manner.

The unauthorised use of private land or non vehicular rights of way is a potentially serious criminal offence and when riding on the public highway you must comply with any statutory road signs or traffic restrictions.

In brief, public vehicular access is only legal on the following,

(1) Classified, tarmac roads (uncontroversial)

(2) Unclassified roads, tarmac or otherwise, where there is no compelling evidence that they are footpaths, bridleways or restricted byways (check the Definitive Map)

(3) Byways Open to All Traffic

(4) Other routes only where a public right of way for motor vehicles can be shown to exist (to the satisfaction of a court of law)

Remember that trail riding is a legitimate recreational activity but that Green Lanes are multi user routes. You will meet other vulnerable road users (children, walkers, horse riders etc) and most will not be expecting to encounter motor vehicles. Ride accordingly because the safety of other users is paramount.
Many highway authority web sites contain general information about rights of way but more specific advice on vehicular access to the countryside and the law can be found in the following government publications,

Making the Best of Byways

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countr ... byways.pdf

Regulating the use of motor vehicles on public rights of way and off road

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countr ... hicles.pdf

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[herman]

If you join the TRF you can request a 'key' for the trailwise site which is as about up to date legal wise as you can get. However on the ground TROs seem to pop up from nowhere so at times even with local knowledge you can end up illegal. I could envisage the situation where this forum,and Alun,were attacked for providing a route which was legal on the Friday and closed by the Monday. You can also spend time bent over the definative map which the councils have to produce,again somewhat time consuming. Just looking at an O.S. map will be of no use to you at all.In all honesty the TRF route is the best,if your local group is active-unlike mine. I would definately not put routes on a public forum as its opening a huge can of worms which will swamp the posts,imo obviously. Maybe a compromise would be to have start and finish points at petrol stations and keep the routes to the pm facility? Maybe people are willing to post up more off road biased runs ,we go out in Hants and Wilts about once a month,France once a year,Spain for the first time this year and Wales probably a couple of times plus races, plus track days like Enduroland and Endurokent.

[ipswichbiker]

Id like to politely disagree about OS maps. I think they are still useful as Traffic Regulation Orders TROs have to be sign posted on the route. So you should be able to ride up to a route see that it is closed and turn around and ride somewhere else.

department for transport guidelines

"the requisite traffic signs are placed on or near the road and maintained for as long as the TRO remains in force."

[Lee]

I think there's scope here for some UK stuff to be posted, but maybe it needs to be tailored to our kind of bikes. There's already heaps of info out there on other forums such as the range opening times for Salisbury plain and which tracks are legal / suitable on larger cc bikes like ours.

Certainly if you want to know about all the little lanes that might or might not be legal to ride then join the TRF, but much of the stuff they fight to keep open would be a real challenge on a 200kg adventure bike unless your name's Simon Pavey.

Maybe just post the kind of UK tracks that we're seeing mentioned in ride reports on here already – the sort of places many people already know about and regularly ride