EU. In or out?

[AlanHolt]

I can’t find a yawning emoji.

When you bu****ed off and walked out of this country, did you have any idea of what would happen in your future?
Nor does anyone who sets up their own business by leaving the soft and squidgy comfort of the firm they worked for.
I set up my own architectural practice in 1986 on a verbal promise from a client that could easily been withdrawn at any time but, in the end, it all worked out well and I never had a day without work until I retired nearly two years ago. But I had left a perfectly good and interesting job to take a punt on independence. As it happened, they virtually folded about 4 years later. An analogy for where the EU is heading perhaps?

Some things just have to be done. I have said repeatedly that there is a big world out there so why not be a bigger part of it?

I also resent being lectured by permanent ex-pats.

I may be an expat, for unfortunately, i will remain a British citizen for at least the next 10 years because thats how long it takes to qualify for citizenship. During that time, British and EU politics affect me, which is why I have as much right to a say on these matters as you do.

[DavidS]

But your attitude to the UK is disparaging, to say the least, and your earlier posts show that you don’t care for this country.

I appreciate your concerns about your future but you chose to move to another country.

[AlanHolt]

But your attitude to the UK is disparaging, to say the least, and your earlier posts show that you don’t care for this country.

I appreciate your concerns about your future but you chose to move to another country.

Can you honestly say you are proud of your country and how it is governed? It takes huge cojones to sell up and move to a foreign land in the hope of a better life, most people are too scared to leave the town they are born in. Spain isn't an easy country to live in, but they do lots of things better than the uk. They have a very active, very prominent way of policing, even my little town (less than 4000 people) has 2 or 3 police checkpoints each week. Its an inconvenience, but it means I can leave my car unlocked with the keys in the ignition in town and know it will be there hours later. Car crime and bike crime is non-existent. Almost everyone stops work for a 4 hour lunch with their friends and family, and nobody here works Sundays. Everyone smiles, everyone says bon dia when they pass someone on the street. So i don't put the UK down without good reason. Get off the aeroplane at any Spanish airport and look around at the staff, the baggage handlers are happy, laughing and joking, even the people cleaning the streets are happy and smiling. Go to hire a car, everyone is happy. And they are in the EU. The EU is not the problem and by the time you realise, it will be too late.

Have a nice weekend, I will, i'm going to Barcelona tomorrow where I can get a beer or a coffee for around £1.10, and a 3 course meal with wine for £9 and an abundance of beautiful women.

[Trev]

I think the technical term is 'shafted' david.
Not that's it any surprise after all the government has been aided by the lies and propoganda of a very vocal minority who couldnt take not getting their own way

Not all remainers behaved disgracefully of course, but to those that did and aided the overturning of the most democratic event in our lifetimes, I say...fuck you, fuck you all

I'm sure those you mention won't give a flying fuck what you think anyway

The only way the referendum result should be overturned is by another vote and, if it turns out that we, the people, have changed our minds, then the 'most democratic event in our lifetimes' will have been overturned democratically, what could be wrong with that?

[Jak*]

Having just been told that I am being made redundant, I have a lot of sympathy with those whose jobs are at risk due to Brexit. In my case I am losing my job because of, what for many people was the real reason they voted Brexit, the systematic destruction of public services. The impact of this can be seen everywhere, it is not the fault of the EU but a deliberate move by the Tories to privatise every aspect of our country’s infrastructure. If I had thought for one minute that leaving the EU would have made this country a better place to live I would have voted for it. The current fiasco has already cost us billions.
I get why so many people fall into the trap of parroting ‘Leave means Leave’, nobody likes to admit that they have been conned. Unfortunately Leave meant a lot of things to different people, to many it now means unemployment.
Cheers Jak

[daveuprite]

Having just been told that I am being made redundant, I have a lot of sympathy with those whose jobs are at risk due to Brexit. In my case I am losing my job because of, what for many people was the real reason they voted Brexit, the systematic destruction of public services. The impact of this can be seen everywhere, it is not the fault of the EU but a deliberate move by the Tories to privatise every aspect of our country’s infrastructure. If I had thought for one minute that leaving the EU would have made this country a better place to live I would have voted for it. The current fiasco has already cost us billions.
I get why so many people fall into the trap of parroting ‘Leave means Leave’, nobody likes to admit that they have been conned. Unfortunately Leave meant a lot of things to different people, to many it now means unemployment.
Cheers Jak

Sympathies, Jak. Hope you find something else soon, if that's your plan.

It's a very sad state of affairs. There were even messages yesterday from Afghanistan and Venezuela, of all places, expressing concern for the UK's current plight. You couldn't make it up.

Some previous leave-voters have been honest enough to say that their mind has been changed by events, but many still double down on their inner anger, stoked by populist politicians and a media obsessed with extreme opinion. Just like Trump, they turn failure not into self-reflection but into attack and project their own problems on to others. The latest manifestation is the 'betrayal myth' in which leavers turn on members of their own team for not being sufficiently 'brexity', like fundamentalist religious zealots attacking their more consensual brethren. And of course we also see the 'Blame Brussels' discourse, in which those who are not getting the extreme destructive version of brexit they wanted blame the organisation they chose to leave for their own inadequacies.

It would be a psychiatrist's field-day if only those affected would explore their issues, which sadly the very condition itself makes unlikely.

[DavidS]

I am proud of my country but not of any recent governments. Although bring proud to be English seems to be racist but Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish is ok. I guess the Spanish and French governments are paragons of virtue then

To be honest, a four hour lunch and working to 7.00pm seems a poor use of time, albeit the excessive midday heat is part of the reason but no doubt familiarity makes it seem less of an issue.
The grass is not always greener and the cost of a coffee is hardly reason to emigrate. That was a tongue in cheek comment.

I also like holidaying in France and, particularly, Italy and could easily live in either but prefer life in lovely Sussex. As ever, the negative stories swamp those of perfectly happy lives.

My sympathies Jak but I think it’s the stupid delays and uncertainty that are causing these problems, not Brexit as such, as we haven’t left yet. I take no notice of the extremist politicians and never read ‘news’papers but am able to form my own opinions.
I would rather stay than have this current ridiculous charade but still feel leave is the correct route.

Remainers do not hold the moral and mental high ground but I appreciate they form the vocal majority on here. It’s clear both sides are entrenched in their own opinions and I fully respect the opinions of Remainers but not the aggressive abuse directed at Leavers.

[Tonibe63]

First of all best wishes to Jak for the future, one door closes and another one opens .
There will always be the 'vocal minority' at either end of the spectrum and we should not be surprised that these extremes are seen within Parliament, Religion, media, internet forums, Trf/Ramblers, gender identity ....... etc etc. Within these extremes the mentality is all about winning at any cost.
For the vast majority of Society there is a middle ground, a compromise, a better way than the old and the new ........ these middle ground people are the 'silent majority' who choose not to air their views in a manner akin to a baseball bat or sledgehammer. Personally I am happy to see the Political climate is exploring the possibility of agreement rather than winners or losers.
Let's hope the trust is not betrayed at the last fence by either side.

[daveuprite]

This has been around a while but still good:

[garyboy]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/u ... spartanntp ……………….



The UK public is increasingly disenchanted with MPs and government and ever more willing to welcome the idea of authoritarian leaders who would ignore parliament, a long-running survey of attitudes to politics has shown.

Ruth Fox ..
“Preferring a strong leader who is willing to break the rules, or thinking that the government should be able to tackle the country’s problems without worrying about the approval of parliament, would challenge core tenets of our democracy.

“The public feel strongly that the system of governing favours the rich and powerful and that political parties don’t care about the average person. And people are not confident that politicians act in the public interest. Unless something changes, this is a potentially toxic recipe for the future of British politics.”

Rosie Carter, a senior policy officer with the group, said: “We are facing a crisis of political mistrust. And when people do not trust traditional political systems, they look elsewhere. That’s when support for political extremes grows.”

One of the few areas where the populist mood has subsided is backing for referendums. Before the Brexit vote, 76% of people supported more issues being put to the public in referendums, but this has now slumped to 55%, three points lower than 2018.