EU. In or out?

[Mawnanian]

Hardly pointless. We need all the money we can get to effectively run a country for the benefit of its citizens. I object to paying money to the the EU. It's federalist, one size fits all, agenda conflicts hugely with my idea of democracy, self determination and independence.[/quote]

Is self determination and independence not a personal thing? If my freedom of movement for example is restricted or made more difficult that impacts on my self determination and independence.

That to me is important and not to be put at risk for some abstract notion of the nation state where I live being able to tax me and regulate my life without referring to a third party.

I don't care who makes the rules, it's the rules themselves that I may or may not take issue with and whether the representative democracy resides in Westminster or Brussels or both makes not one jot of difference. Brussels has it's commission and Westminster has it's civil service, both draft laws for their parliament to examine and pass into law and both parliaments come up for election regularly.
I have no more control over Westminster than I have over Brussels.

[Throttled]

So all those EU immigrants contribute way more than they cost the UK economy.

Maybe they do financially but they have an impact on other matters as well, as follows ...all quoted from the official report on EU imigration to the Home Office.

Public services are creaking under the weight of the additional demand.

Cut backs due to the financial crisis. Not the EU

Many schools are unprepared and unable to accommodate children for whom English is their second language.

EU or other immigrants? A lack of preparedness by the Uk education department, not the EU.

Hospitals are full of EU patients who have failed to register with their local GP.

Is that evidenced anywhere? Is it not a case of lack of preparedness and the financial crisis?

Social housing lists grow ever longer.

Right to buy, lack of investment in social housing, not the EU.

Private housing shortage - the situation is close to a full-blown crisis

Bad policies in the UK have lead to a housing shortage and stupidly expensive housing, not the EU.

Integration - native British residents and a significant number of the existing large non-native community complain that newer imigrants simply don't integrate.

Like our ex-pats don't integrate and a lack of integration with the new arrivals goes back centuries. Not the EU.

Negative impacts on national identity - perceptions of Britishness are diminished.

Negative impacts on cohesion. Imigration negatively affects neighbourhoods and how people get along with each other.

Immigration will not change if we leave the EU unless we also leave the EEA. Much of our immigration is from non EU nationals. The number one country in the world providing immigrants to the UK is China.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... d-why.html

[dave448]

I think I must be getting (more?) cynical ..you see ..I'm becoming convinced that we are all fed these factoids in a bid to blind - confuse and obfuscate ... so that we all are driven by emotion and fear ...like sheep

The Chinese had a good one .. :laugh:
In the Chinese language, the word "crisis" is composed of two characters,
one representing danger and the other, opportunity.[4]

[Throttled]

The "factoids" are one example of corroborated facts about the EU. For example, multiple sources agree that EU and immigrants in general contribute more in tax than they take back in benefits.

[CRAIGREVO]

Well it appears that migration is the big thing for a lot of people so can anyone tell me what they would do if they were making the decisions after we left the EU?

I hope nobody suggests that we should start issuing short term entry visas to anyone coming in because that would only get a tit for tat response from Europe which would kind of mess up all those big adventures we've all got planned and if we're not going to issue entry visas how exactly are we going to know how long our friendly Polish plumber intends staying when he arrives at Dover.

They should get holiday visas that allows upto 4 weeks in the UK, and they would need to show their return ticket just like going on holiday to the USA.

So what if it got a tit for tat response. If you are planning a big trip then that's what you do, "plan" and that includes visas.


I would then issue all EU workers that are hear already a 1 year visa. If they can prove within that time that they are rooted here with their family and intent to stay long term, then I would give them a residential visa. If not then they have a year to pack their sh*t.

[AndyB]

I'd be more inclined to believe we could control EU citizens entering the country if we had even a half decent record of doing it for anyone else. That's why I totally ignore the EU citizens coming here to work and take more interest in the financial aspects of whether to stay in or get out.

Just how long do Australians get when they visit?

[skipper]

there should be no problem for any eu citizens to enter the uk, they should just have to have a work permit if they want to work, there are plenty of new laws with huge fines for business's employing non legal workers.Uk boarder force vans are a regular sight outside our local Chinese restaurant.

[JonnyBravo]

The "factoids" are one example of corroborated facts about the EU. For example, multiple sources agree that EU and immigrants in general contribute more in tax than they take back in benefits.

Are any of those sources funded by the EU ?

I bet just as many 'multiple sources' say they dont.........

[Alan29]

Almost all the regeneration in my area has been EU funded. Westminster just don't give a st1t about the provinces unless they are marginal seats. So they have ignored us for years.
Three cheers for the EU who allocate funds on the basis of need and not to win elections.
In for me.

[Dutchgit]

there should be no problem for any eu citizens to enter the uk, they should just have to have a work permit if they want to work, there are plenty of new laws with huge fines for business's employing non legal workers.Uk boarder force vans are a regular sight outside our local Chinese restaurant.

For boarding the place up in case of wrongdoings or to get grub like most people ?