EU. In or out?

[misterlaffer]

Let me ask you all a question.

The political landscape has changed beyond recognition in the last week.

Hindsight is showing certain things for sure, Boris and Farage lied big time, neither Cameron or Boris are going to be leading us forwards after their campaigns, there is economic damage of the likes warned by Project Fear, Mark Carney announced today he expected a recession, interests rates would have to drop this year not rise, more quantitative easing needed, and immigration won't change if we stay in EEA as all politicians want to (except Farage who has no power).

A large number of people voted as a protest against the establishment and never thought their vote would actually take us out of the EU.

The kids are now moaning, because they also thought Remain would win so didn't get off their arses to vote. 3.8 million 18-24 year olds probably wouldn't make that mistake second time around.

So, it's quite conceivable that the mood amongst the electorate will have changed since 23rd.

We keep talking about democracy and how the will of the people must be carried out.

If YouGov did a poll tomorrow, and that poll showed that a significant majority wanted to change their mind with the hindsight we have, what then?

A lot has changed since 23rd. What if the poll showed the will of the people had changed?

Too late. Job done. Can't turn the clock back now, and shouldn't. I believe both camps lied to us - so what? It just depends on what would be the bigger lie that has the worse impact in the future. For me, the lie that Turkey won't be joining the EU will be the bigger lie and one I'm prepared to dismiss those of Boris and Farage as mere chicken feed. So one week on, I am still happy with the result. All this weeks bollocks will be chip paper soon.

Boris and Farage? nah ... they were no more liars than those that feed us them in any political party manifesto. The difference is, it's only one week and you still remember these lies. Very few remember the lies 2 years after a general election - where we all happily let them get away with them.

Boris did us a favour in my view. Prepared to fall on his sword. Good man. Wouldn't want him as PM though. This country voted against Churchill after the war despite the man being considered the hero of Europe. Politics is politics. The EU referendum has simply demonstrated that. Don't cry about it. Maybe the young people should get more involved instead of playing on their consoles and twitter moaning everyone.

Hindsight eh? The person that should have seen this weeks events was Cameron. He gave us the Referendum yet was willing to simply step aside when his actions cause turmoil. Forget Farage, Johnson and blame Cameron if the people want to blame someone, he grossly underestimated the view of the British people which was simply this: no one really likes UKIP and Farage but agree with a lot of what they are saying.

They really thought sending that awful propaganda leaflet out to everyone at tax payers cost would sway peoples opinions. Laughable really.

Theresa May for PM now for me (thumbs) It's taken a woman to grow some balls and get a grip - even she is at least in agreement we can't turn back from the vote, and good on her (thumbs)

[Redmurty]

So has the UK stopped sending the European a huge sum of money each week no ?
has the UK tax payers funded subsidies stopped come back no ?
so there could be a recession in the future really we have one every 3 to 5 years on average in any case.
has article 50 been submitted yet ?

Wait till Le Pen gets in at the next election to see the shit hit the fan :blink:

Cheers Spud

[misterlaffer]

So,
At 10:00 today I will deliver the outlook for the long term future of the business to the staff, not a prospect I am looking forward too. There are 3 different EU funded grant mechanisms in place that pay over 50% of my wage bill. The irony is, that EU funding is to keep Welsh people employed, I get nothing to assist me in employing the staff from Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Estonia or Lithuania, I employ them because they are worth employing, well educated, well qualified, hard working, conscientious and extremely punctual. When the time come to decide who stays and who goes, what do the leave campaigners (who want their Country back) expect a small business like me to do ??

People really have no idea what they have done !

Hmmm, I at least know what I have done. It seems folks are prepared for anyone including the great gig in the sky to contribute to their wages bill except their own business. Sounds like a flawed business model to me - one based on hand-outs.

The world doesn't spin on 'hand-outs'. Why not pay the staff yourself instead of expecting the EU to cough up? What would you have done if the EU simply decide that because of the state of the Greek economy we are going to have to withdraw that Grant ? Who are you going to blame then - the Greeks, the EU or the British Government from not standing up to the decision ? I guess anyone where the cap will fit eh?

I admire anyone running their own business, but please spare use the guilt trip dude. For every one of you there is a farmer moaning about shelf upon shelf of Dutch Back Bacon in Sainsbury's and a mere bottom shelf of British Bacon.

[Redmurty]

It's only been one week we knew it would take 2 years courage people courage Rome wasn't built in a week.

Cheers Spud

[misterlaffer]

I can't take the too late job done approach I'm afraid.

If I sprayed a car, and it looked shit and it was a terrible mess, I wouldnt say too late job done, I'd rub it back down and spray it again, especially if once I'd seen the colour, I changed my mind and decided I didn't like it.

I can't think of anything more morally wrong in politics than a government of a democratic country to say at some point next year, "what, people of the UK, all the polls say you've changed your mind now? Tough shit matey on 23rd June you wanted out, too late, job done, we dont care what you want anymore, Article 50 it is!"

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The ballot paper:

tweet_3559201b.jpg (32.15 KiB) Viewed 1649 times

Note the word Should

That's what the folks were asked, and the folks replied. There was nothing enforced but if you are going to refer to the people and then ignore what they say then it's going to take a tough hard-line government to ignore it. I would argue that is EVEN MORE morally wrong.

To use your car re-spray analogy you could take anyone of the following:

a) Totally Ignore your own dissatisfaction and hope the customer doesn't notice.

b) Re-Spray because you agree it looks shit.

c) Give them their money back and say I changed my mind, I thought I could do you a good respray but realise I'm a liar - sorry I have wasted your time !

Sounds like you would go for C. matey (thumbs)

[xtzrick]

I voted to leave because the way I saw the EU going was to a soviet style totalitarian regime (the constant trickle of legislation going from Westminster to the EU) & feared what happens when it breaks up in the future.

A week on & having seen comments from EU politicians about getting more power from the remaining member countries & trying to make it impossible for anyone else to leave, I feel justified in my decision (thumbs)

In a few years when the UK has finally split, if people want to live in the EU superstate they can ask for asylum or say they are defecting like people did 30 years ago.

Rick

[Mac 60]

Lots of well informed people on here putting forward very impressive pro/against EU membership scenarios. But what really tickles me are the one,s who complain they were missled by Politicians and act surprised to find they were, lets say less than honest. Short memories people. PMSL

[-Ralph-]

I can't take the too late job done approach I'm afraid.

If I sprayed a car, and it looked shit and it was a terrible mess, I wouldnt say too late job done, I'd rub it back down and spray it again, especially if once I'd seen the colour, I changed my mind and decided I didn't like it.

I can't think of anything more morally wrong in politics than a government of a democratic country to say at some point next year, "what, people of the UK, all the polls say you've changed your mind now? Tough shit matey on 23rd June you wanted out, too late, job done, we dont care what you want anymore, Article 50 it is!"

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[DaveCon]

I can't think of anything more morally wrong in politics than a government of a democratic country to say at some point next year, "what, people of the UK, all the polls say you've changed your mind now? Tough shit matey on 23rd June you wanted out, too late, job done, we dont care what you want anymore, Article 50 it is!"

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You must also think it morally wrong for politicians to do anything you don't like.

So they say ok, you've changed your mind, we'll stay. Then the "leavers" are up in arms so they say ok, we'll leave etc etc. Well that'll get us nowhere, so they arrange a referendum... oh hang on we just had one of those and the majority in our democracy voted out.

Suck it up and start working for the best out deal we can get. I suggest as a starting point ALL the advantages of being in the EU and NONE of the disadvantages. Now lets negotiate... (thumbs)

[Scott_rider]

Any of us who employ staff, be that 1 person or a 100 would love to have 50% of the wages bill paid by the EU :silly: .
Hearing things like that make me glad I voted OUT.

(That is not an attack on the original poster by the way, just an observation on what bonkers things the EU can do).