E10 Fuels

[catcitrus]

Just an observation… I have been using E10 fuel in my cars, bikes, lawnmowers, chainsaws and outboard since 2009 without any obvious problems. It’s new to the U.K. it’s not a new fuel, it’s a proven success for the majority of petrol engines.

Define "success" please--do a "well to wheel" type analysis on the whole production process---particularly the bulk fermentation and refinement process of crops, which arguably should be for food, and the energy source for that process including the building of factories required--and convince me that it has "green credentials" through paying for injection of liquid oxygen which has zero energy contribution to the combustion process . I firmly believe its a con to line the pockets of farmers and keep the oil industry "relevant" through bullshit and spin.

Oh dear picking at straws. It would also help if you responded to what I actually wrote.

Picking at straws--get real--and if we could use straw to ferment and produce ethanol that would be better. I've seen and smelt the plants on the Illinois river and seen the 100 ton barges moored up full of corn for fermentation--its a self serving industry with no environmental credentials--instead of sniping put your money where your mouth is and explain why ethanol addition is of a REAL environmental benefit.

[Cornishman]

Do you have a problem reading English?

[catcitrus]

Do you have a problem reading English?

Oh dear--getting a bit personal --nothing constructive to add then?--of course I can read English--French as well if it helps!--All I can see that you have said in the previous pages is that you have been running E10 without an observed apparent problem. I'm not disputing that modern engines will run on it--in Brazil I think they actually do 100% ethanol--but is that really the point?--my question was simply what are the green credentials of increasing the ethanol content?--surely that IS THE POINT of using the higher content (so we are told!), on the basis of an environmental advantage---I'm simply disputing that---so over to you, as I said before---you are happy using E10 so you must believe that it has an environmental advantage--I'd just like to see your factual argument.
On ethanol production its worthy of note that the combination of the earth's population increase and the change in global weather patterns is causing major droughts throughout the world---farms are folding, grain and wheat production is falling dramatically. The droughts are exacerbated by overuse of major aquifers throughout the world--which are also drying up and have gone beyond their tipping points. Is this a reason to divert food for fermentation and the production of fuel for the rich nations??

[Cornishman]

Do you have a problem reading English?

Oh dear--getting a bit personal --nothing constructive to add then?--of course I can read English--French as well if it helps!--All I can see that you have said in the previous pages is that you have been running E10 without an observed apparent problem. I'm not disputing that modern engines will run on it--in Brazil I think they actually do 100% ethanol--but is that really the point?--my question was simply what are the green credentials of increasing the ethanol content?--surely that IS THE POINT of using the higher content (so we are told!), on the basis of an environmental advantage---I'm simply disputing that---so over to you, as I said before---you are happy using E10 so you must believe that it has an environmental advantage--I'd just like to see your factual argument,

Oh dear. I made an observation based on experience and never once mentioned the environment. You ranted in reply. I pointed out that you had not replied to what I had written. You continued to rant. Life’s too short to deal with people like you. Bye.
The reading comment was also an observation based on your apparent reading comprehension skills.
Rant incoming?

[catcitrus]

Do you have a problem reading English?

Oh dear--getting a bit personal --nothing constructive to add then?--of course I can read English--French as well if it helps!--All I can see that you have said in the previous pages is that you have been running E10 without an observed apparent problem. I'm not disputing that modern engines will run on it--in Brazil I think they actually do 100% ethanol--but is that really the point?--my question was simply what are the green credentials of increasing the ethanol content?--surely that IS THE POINT of using the higher content (so we are told!), on the basis of an environmental advantage---I'm simply disputing that---so over to you, as I said before---you are happy using E10 so you must believe that it has an environmental advantage--I'd just like to see your factual argument,

Oh dear. I made an observation based on experience and never once mentioned the environment. You ranted in reply. I pointed out that you had not replied to what I had written. You continued to rant. Life’s too short to deal with people like you. Bye.
The reading comment was also an observation based on your apparent reading comprehension skills.
Rant incoming?

Oh dear, oh dear again-then what was the point of your observation when E10 is meant to be all about the environment--I see that you have just joined, and are obviously a little sensitive and take things a bit personally. I'm not ranting at all , just hacked off by glib acceptance of such changes and I'm trying to provide a bit of a reasoned balance--disagree with what I've said by all means. I do hope that you don't suffer too much from E10 deposits etc in the future--personally I've had enough trouble with sorting out other people's engines that have had E5 left in them (carburetted)--fuel injection gets away with it because there is minimal fuel volume loafing around at the business end.

[Cornishman]

Do you have a problem reading English?

Oh dear--getting a bit personal --nothing constructive to add then?--of course I can read English--French as well if it helps!--All I can see that you have said in the previous pages is that you have been running E10 without an observed apparent problem. I'm not disputing that modern engines will run on it--in Brazil I think they actually do 100% ethanol--but is that really the point?--my question was simply what are the green credentials of increasing the ethanol content?--surely that IS THE POINT of using the higher content (so we are told!), on the basis of an environmental advantage---I'm simply disputing that---so over to you, as I said before---you are happy using E10 so you must believe that it has an environmental advantage--I'd just like to see your factual argument,

Oh dear. I made an observation based on experience and never once mentioned the environment. You ranted in reply. I pointed out that you had not replied to what I had written. You continued to rant. Life’s too short to deal with people like you. Bye.
The reading comment was also an observation based on your apparent reading comprehension skills.
Rant incoming?

Oh dear, oh dear again-then what was the point of your observation when E10 is meant to be all about the environment--I see that you have just joined, and are obviously a little sensitive and take things a bit personally. I'm not ranting at all , just hacked off by glib acceptance of such changes and I'm trying to provide a bit of a reasoned balance--disagree with what I've said by all means. I do hope that you don't suffer too much from E10 deposits etc in the future--personally I've had enough trouble with sorting out other people's engines that have had E5 left in them (carburetted)--fuel injection gets away with it because there is minimal fuel volume loafing around at the business end.

No, still not responding to what I wrote.

[Cornishman]

Do you have a problem reading English?

Oh dear--getting a bit personal --nothing constructive to add then?--of course I can read English--French as well if it helps!--All I can see that you have said in the previous pages is that you have been running E10 without an observed apparent problem. I'm not disputing that modern engines will run on it--in Brazil I think they actually do 100% ethanol--but is that really the point?--my question was simply what are the green credentials of increasing the ethanol content?--surely that IS THE POINT of using the higher content (so we are told!), on the basis of an environmental advantage---I'm simply disputing that---so over to you, as I said before---you are happy using E10 so you must believe that it has an environmental advantage--I'd just like to see your factual argument,

Oh dear. I made an observation based on experience and never once mentioned the environment. You ranted in reply. I pointed out that you had not replied to what I had written. You continued to rant. Life’s too short to deal with people like you. Bye.
The reading comment was also an observation based on your apparent reading comprehension skills.
Rant incoming?

Oh dear, oh dear again-then what was the point of your observation when E10 is meant to be all about the environment--I see that you have just joined, and are obviously a little sensitive and take things a bit personally. I'm not ranting at all , just hacked off by glib acceptance of such changes and I'm trying to provide a bit of a reasoned balance--disagree with what I've said by all means. I do hope that you don't suffer too much from E10 deposits etc in the future--personally I've had enough trouble with sorting out other people's engines that have had E5 left in them (carburetted)--fuel injection gets away with it because there is minimal fuel volume loafing around at the business end.

No, still not responding to what I wrote. As your French is so good perhaps you would prefer to continue en français. C’est possible si vous voulez.

[92kk k100lt 193214]

The issue of aquifers being overused and being depleted is rising rapidly, the demand of ethanol for fuel has exacerbated this problem. The dead sea and many other large lakes and inland seas are disappearing too.

The use of an additional 5% ethanol in petrol that then causes an increase in fuel consumption makes no sense at all. I have been able to do comparisons on my bikes and my fuel consumption increases by more than 5%.... so the ethanol is a massive exercise in achieving nothing and a diversion of resources from food production to fuel production. All the ethanol is doing is diluting the petrol.

Brazil used sugar beet and initially this did not create an issue. Egypt imports grain because the amount of irrigation and water required is too high.

I also see the Oscar Wilde school of English is thriving nicely. Except he wasn't English. Or even French.

[catcitrus]

Thanks Olaf for the additional info and perspective. Its so easy just to accept these sort of changes without question-- just for a quiet life, but as has been said by the majority the rational behind the introduction of E10 is flawed on many levels, E5 is bad enough----and I've yet to see a good argument for its use or introduction (ethanol in fuel)--its certainly not green in its production cycle, and the tailpipe emissions gain can be offset by fitting a roof rack increasing drag slightly. We haven't even addressed the use of diesel for transport--but with particulate filters, deNOx catalysts, oxicats etc the tailpipe emissions are now extremely clean--just look up a modern truck's tailpipe----and what is the "solution" here?--there is no alternative for the foreseeable future. The cost of the aftertreatment (which includes rare earth metals and complex control electronics) is at least equal to the cost of the basic engine--so doubling the cost of the "unit". We are pretty much there on improving the transport diesel--but maybe spark ignited hydrogen (JCB programme) will prove to be a genuinely clean alternative (tailpipe emissions).

[Crossrutted]

It’s new to the U.K. it’s not a new fuel, it’s a proven success for the majority of petrol engines.

An interesting assertion. Where is the proof of success? Success in what respect?
(There is a raft of evidence the both E5 and E10 fuels cause both damage and need for additional maintenance.