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Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:14 pm
by onslowe
There are many countries in the EU that are in a worse state than the UK (Greece, Spain, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria....) therefore who could blame the Leaders of the EU if they spent all of their time and effort getting those countries on a level pegging with the UK, at our expense. The EU has been a disaster for a lot of counties so we are better off out of it to choose our own destiny unless you fancy 50% youth unemployment or the sinking ship that Greece has become. If "The Sarge" reckons he is better off in France and is going there anyway well good luck and "au revoir", hope it all works out for you, just remember the grass is not always greener so maybe give the UK a few years to see if we sink or swim.
Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:16 pm
by Loggy
Looking at the comments in this article, is exactly why we needed to go...
http://www.thelocal.fr/20160625/brexit- ... t-analysts
Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:29 pm
by Jak*
I am at a loss how people can consider that supporting the likes of Farage, Gove and Johnson was a vote against the political elite. Although I had many reasons for voting to remain I have to say that one of them was I thought I was voting against the right wing elite by voting to Remain.
It is a pity that Cameron did not have the guts to say 'There has been a very narrow vote to leave the EU and the country is clearly divided on the issue, we need to clearly look at the implications before we make any decisions' that would have left the options open. It is quite clear now that no one in this country had expected or planned for this outcome and we may now be up the creek without a paddle.
Cheers Jak
Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:34 pm
by Gedge
Jak* wrote:I am at a loss how people can consider that supporting the likes of Farage, Gove and Johnson was a vote against the political elite. Although I had many reasons for voting to remain I have to say that one of them was I thought I was voting against the right wing elite by voting to Remain.
It is a pity that Cameron did not have the guts to say 'There has been a very narrow vote to leave the EU and the country is clearly divided on the issue, we need to clearly look at the implications before we make any decisions' that would have left the options open. It is quite clear now that no one in this country had expected or planned for this outcome and we may now be up the creek without a paddle.
Cheers Jak
Junkers and the rest of the EU should have been able to see that as a country we were unhappy...digging his heels in meant many of us could only see one choice....no chance of any changes....vote leave....in many ways the ball is now in their court...change the EU promptly and encourage us and others to stay, or watch the whole stinking edifice crumble....if there had been options the result would almost certainly have been different but for too many years we've been the whipping boy and cash cow....personally I can't see that things can be any worse on the outside ....
Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:37 pm
by AndyB
Loggy wrote:AndyB wrote:Apparently a petition calling for a second referendum has topped 1million signatures. Mine won't be joining them even though I'd sooner we stayed in because it was a fair vote and if anyone didn't vote and now feels unhappy about the result they can spend the rest of their life spewing as far as I'm concerned.
You can't live in a democracy then cry because you don't get what you want and if you don't like it just sod off and live somewhere else. I left when Thatcher got voted in because I hated the decision the country had made and everyone else has that choice this time. Before I see anyone saying they can't then consider that I was 20 years old, had just finished my apprenticeship and went with a hold-all and under £500 in my pocket (thumbs)
Couldn't agree more Andy. We live in a democracy. We had a democratic vote. Everyone was exposed to the same information and a decision was made. I find it highly disturbing that people are now whinging and making headlines from an online petition of over a million signatures. If all those are "new" signatures then it would have resulted in a Remain vote. However I guess many of those are from Remain voters that didn't like the result and are trying to sway another vote in the hope of turning the decision around. Even if this was to happen and we voted again and got a Remain vote, can you imagine what our relationship with the EU would be like after??? I hope this gets short shrift in Parliament.
I don't agree with people that say Article 50 should be delayed. We voted for OUT and the process should start immediately. The EU leaders are quite rightly demanding we invoke Article 50 immediately. It will just cause uncertainty and actually cause more harm than good. Lets invoke Article 50 and crack on with it. The sooner we sort it out the less acrimonious it will be and everything can get back on track...
The World has turned on its head! I'm not used to you agreeing with a filthy socialist like me
The thing is we've got to make it work and dragging out internal fights is for fools and even though I can be a bit radical I'm not a fool.
Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:42 pm
by -Ralph-
jaffa1963 wrote:Fact... there is one person to blame for this referendum decision...
Cameron.
Until he went to Europe a couple years ago "to get us a better deal or leave" the average Brit hadn't even considered this an issue.
His first mistake was threatening something he was clearly not willing to do. You never make threats you are not willing to follow through.
His second mistake was coming back with nothing and lying, stating he'd got us a great deal. He shouldn't have lied but should have said he'd failed but had tried his best, adding that he still felt we were better off in Europe.
His third mistake was then promising the referendum.
So we should all stop the recriminations, stupid accusations and work together to get the best from this .
(thumbs) (thumbs) (thumbs) (thumbs) (thumbs) (thumbs) (thumbs) (thumbs)
He got a bit of a threat from UKIP voters and shat himself. That threat was more about protest and discontent at home than it was about Europe.
If he didn't win a majority there was an outside chance of an SNP coalition, so again she shat himself.
So he promised a referendum on Europe. Let the people decide then its not his fault/decision. Walk away from the nursery school and let the kids run it, but don't complain if when you come back the building is on fire.
Yesterday he looked at the prospect of all the hard work ahead, and shat himself again.
He's reported to have said to his aides after his resignation "why should I do all the hard work" having just stood there, almost cried, and said how much he loves the country and how he'd do anything in its best interests.
He's been my favourite Prime Minister in my adult lifetime, but on the issue of Europe he's been a spineless prick.
Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:07 pm
by chrisinflight
Cameron the coward and the biggest quitter of all time. Just confirms all the fake bullshit he was,spewing trying to persuade voters.
Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:17 pm
by Alban
If the upshot of all this is Europe's ruling elite stepping out of their comfort-zone bubble and actually listening to the concerns of other European members, then Britain may well have saved Europe (and paid the price) - Again! Expect the Americans to turn up to claim the credit, dictate the terms, and present us with the bill some day soon.
Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:37 pm
by xtzrick
The Sarge wrote:Scott_rider wrote:AndyB wrote:Scott_rider wrote:They wouldn't be calling for a 2nd Referendum if the result had gone the way they wanted, would they. Utterly ridiculous :whistle: . Sort of like wanting a second bite of the cherry.
If the situation was reversed would you sign it?
Nope. As you said, I'd stand by the original democratic (and fair) vote. We all knew the rules before we voted.
Even though you were lied too and that your expectations will never be met ???
The 40 year old lie of just trading partners has been undone (thumbs)
Rick
Re: EU. In or out?
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:00 pm
by -Ralph-
The petition would still exist and would still have a million votes if it had gone the other way.
You can't start harping on about democracy then say a petition shouldn't exist and people shouldn't be signing it. They have a democratic right to sign it.
If it's true what the petition claims anyway, and the law does require a certain majority for the results to stand, that was the rules before we voted, and there's no escaping the law, the government will have to call another referendum.
If what the petition claims isn't true then it'll get laughed out of parliament and have no consequence.
The Prime Minister has said the results do stand though, and I struggle to believe all of his advisors would have made such a monumental mistake. If such a mistake had been made that would be the biggest news headline out there.