TRF becomming Extinct?

[captinktm]

Well I resisted getting involved in this post up till now as last time I posted something on the TRF i was slagged off. But having read most of this post it seems as I said, all is not well.If the truth hurts so be it. The TRF in it's present for will never be the answer. I have found that it matters not if you are on a legal trail or not the general public don't want to see or hear you.
Here's the previous post again.

The TRF. Are they the cure or the cause?

I have believed for many years that the TRF are in fact the problem not the solution. The larger they get and the more riders they attract, the bigger target they become. Madness you say, but if there were no TRF then the “nay sayers” would have no one to complain to. Here’s an example, I had ridden a lane close to my house which was not 100% legal but used by all the villagers, the owner, a local dignitary spotted me in the village and knowing I rode motorbikes told me of the mystery rider, I just said I had no idea who it was and the matter died there and then, if she had been aware of the TRF she would have been bagging on their door.
The TRF create another problem when they encouraging group riding, which I deplore. I have seen groups as large as 20 riding on what I knew were sensitive legal trails, riding legal trails just because you can is brainless. They also encourage route sharing which to mind is another cause of popular area’s being over used. On many occasions I have seen large groups from other area’s riding around like lost souls annoying the locals, who then vented the anger on the local riders.
In my experience (50years of off road riding) I have found that riding alone or with one other guy is by far the best way to explore the trails. No one minds one bike riding past and disappearing down the trail but 20? Yes that would even get on my nerves every weekend. Which leads me to another self generated problem the TRF create. Because they encourage group riding this means that the majority of riding is done at the weekend when everyone is free, this is also when all the trails are used by walkers, horses and everyone else. I would try never to ride at the weekend and rarely met any one on the trails. I have ridden everywhere and any where in the uk and never had a problem because I ride alone. I also start and finish in different areas and never stop, why o why do large groups have to discus every twist and turn at every junction is beyond me.
I really do think that the TRF have created a battle they can not win.

Please try not to get personal with your reply after all this is just a forum and anything said on here will not solve any problems we may or may not face.

[AndyB]

I agree about the group riding and it makes me laugh when I remember how loud the TRF were when criticising others (the GLC being a prime example) for going out in large groups.

Everybody hates large groups whether it's off road bikes or 4x4 vehicles, road bikes, loud cars driven by spotty teenagers or noisy drinkers outside a pub but we all gather in a group at various times because it's just a basic human instinct :dry:

I think the TRF will survive but at the moment they're like a political party that has an unpopular leader they can't get rid of and at some point that will change and they'll start to get both new members and old ones will rejoin.

[Mike101]

I've said this many time before but while the TRF link themselves to 4x4s they will never win anything much.

It's the 4x4s that do the damage on most trails...yes water damage does a lot as well but almost all man made damage is from the Land Rover lot.

If the TRF pushed a policy of closing trails to cars and leaving open to bikes things would get better for us.

Mike

[captinktm]

I agree about the group riding and it makes me laugh when I remember how loud the TRF were when criticising others (the GLC being a prime example) for going out in large groups.

Everybody hates large groups whether it's off road bikes or 4x4 vehicles, road bikes, loud cars driven by spotty teenagers or noisy drinkers outside a pub but we all gather in a group at various times because it's just a basic human instinct :dry:

I think the TRF will survive but at the moment they're like a political party that has an unpopular leader they can't get rid of and at some point that will change and they'll start to get both new members and old ones will rejoin.

Yes I agree with all you have said apart from getting new members, this will never change the general public's attitude toward trail riding. If you look at the problem from a neutral point of view, it is madness to have the general public and there dogs etc. share these trail with motorcycles. I don't really know the answer, but going down the legal route, is never going to work. Stealth works! I saw exactly the same problem while paddling on the UK's rivers, when I started I could paddle anywhere any time, once the BCU (British Canoe Union) took on access half of even more rivers became no go areas.

[MikeIrving]

I agree with this sentiment in part. if the TRF sets itself up to be the public face of trail riding then we will be on a hiding to nothing. Everything that occurs on the Trails would be placed at our door and we will be called to account for it, atone for it or pay for it.

Yes we need to have as many trail ( riders and drivers) users on our side, following our code, supporting our cause and our aims. Captain KTM is right when he says that it does not matter what lane you are on the general public and the authorities do not want to see or hear you........and this is the crux "seen or heard". from my experience none really remembers a couple of bikes or a single car. they do remember standing aside for a large group that assails there ears, interrupts their pleasure time and leaves a mark on the path....even just to turn a puddle into a muddy puddle. The current directors promote "Don't be apologetic for trail riding" this attitude combined with super large groups gives cause for the need to apologise. From the outsiders POV its easier to find reasons to ban than it is to change. It does seem a particularly "British" thing where we don't like other people enjoying themselves (or making money).

what the TRF should be doing is demonstrating more to the trail users the good that it still manages to do so they support it by joining, helping with fund raising and as a recruiting ground for the next generation of activists whilst operating just below the parapet in the eyes of the general public and the local authorities, only coming out into the open when they do something good, like repair a lane, build a bridge, help someone who is in difficulty, raise some money for a local charity, start a bike club for the local youths etc etc.

Where we do need to be highly visible in on a national level with Regional and National governments ( at all levels), ACU, Lara, BMF, MAG, Treadlightly, ROSPA, Bike Safe, etc etc and within these circles everyone should know who the TRF is and what they stand for. the TRF does have a foot in the door but its my belief the current management will soon have it slammed shut.

we cannot afford for the current leadership to get fed up or die they need to be moved aside.

[captinktm]

I've said this many time before but while the TRF link themselves to 4x4s they will never win anything much.

It's the 4x4s that do the damage on most trails...yes water damage does a lot as well but almost all man made damage is from the Land Rover lot.

If the TRF pushed a policy of closing trails to cars and leaving open to bikes things would get better for us.

Mike

I agree, 4x4 do a massive amount of damage, I live in Bulgaria now and here the loggers, and hunters make most of the tracks, they don't prepare them in any way and they end up in some place 5 ft deep and of course impassable, so they just move to one side or the other a so on. While living in Cornwall I had a deal with a couple of farmers that I could ride on their land (even with groups) as long as I stayed a meter from the edge. I know (ex farmer) that we used to leave a strip of ground around corn fields to stop the rabbits eating the corn. I am sure if a group of riders want to ride on a farmers land and spoke to him, with in the group there would be skills and business that could be used to persuade him.

[captinktm]

I agree with this sentiment in part. if the TRF sets itself up to be the public face of trail riding then we will be on a hiding to nothing. Everything that occurs on the Trails would be placed at our door and we will be called to account for it, atone for it or pay for it.

Yes we need to have as many trail ( riders and drivers) users on our side, following our code, supporting our cause and our aims. Captain KTM is right when he says that it does not matter what lane you are on the general public and the authorities do not want to see or hear you........and this is the crux "seen or heard". from my experience none really remembers a couple of bikes or a single car. they do remember standing aside for a large group that assails there ears, interrupts their pleasure time and leaves a mark on the path....even just to turn a puddle into a muddy puddle. The current directors promote "Don't be apologetic for trail riding" this attitude combined with super large groups gives cause for the need to apologise. From the outsiders POV its easier to find reasons to ban than it is to change. It does seem a particularly "British" thing where we don't like other people enjoying themselves (or making money).

what the TRF should be doing is demonstrating more to the trail users the good that it still manages to do so they support it by joining, helping with fund raising and as a recruiting ground for the next generation of activists whilst operating just below the parapet in the eyes of the general public and the local authorities, only coming out into the open when they do something good, like repair a lane, build a bridge, help someone who is in difficulty, raise some money for a local charity, start a bike club for the local youths etc etc.

Where we do need to be highly visible in on a national level with Regional and National governments ( at all levels), ACU, Lara, BMF, MAG, Treadlightly, ROSPA, Bike Safe, etc etc and within these circles everyone should know who the TRF is and what they stand for. the TRF does have a foot in the door but its my belief the current management will soon have it slammed shut.

we cannot afford for the current leadership to get fed up or die they need to be moved aside.

Brilliant! If we don't start to think smart rather than (It's my rite) we will end up banished to the enduro park.

[MikeIrving]

whilst i agree 4 x 4's do do a lot of damage i do not agree we should break the link. Like it or not we are all lumped in together. Most TRO's start off looking for a total ban of mechanically propelled vehicles. Sometimes we are lucky and get an amendment allowing motorcycles.....very often this compromise is hard won by the TRF.

we need to stick together, come up with a common plan and deploy it.

we also cannot afford to stop there. we need to get the other user groups on our side starting with the cyclist's, horses and then the walkers. We need to turn this fight into one solely concerned about access for all.

[captinktm]

whilst i agree 4 x 4's do do a lot of damage i do not agree we should break the link. Like it or not we are all lumped in together. Most TRO's start off looking for a total ban of mechanically propelled vehicles. Sometimes we are lucky and get an amendment allowing motorcycles.....very often this compromise is hard won by the TRF.

we need to stick together, come up with a common plan and deploy it.

we also cannot afford to stop there. we need to get the other user groups on our side starting with the cyclist's, horses and then the walkers. We need to turn this fight into one solely concerned about access for all.

Agree with all of that, I found that before the hunting ban (not sure it's still band) that horse riders I met on the trails were at best a bit frosty, and at worse down right abusive. But once the ban was in place their attitude changed. They after all make just as much mess if not more than bikes. I am not sure how many miles of trails there are in the UK but surely they could be divided up, and then signed properly. I think sharing the trails between 4x4's bikes walkers motorbikes horses is never going to work, it will always be perceived as to dangerous.

[AndyB]

whilst i agree 4 x 4's do do a lot of damage i do not agree we should break the link. Like it or not we are all lumped in together. Most TRO's start off looking for a total ban of mechanically propelled vehicles. Sometimes we are lucky and get an amendment allowing motorcycles.....very often this compromise is hard won by the TRF.

we need to stick together, come up with a common plan and deploy it.

we also cannot afford to stop there. we need to get the other user groups on our side starting with the cyclist's, horses and then the walkers. We need to turn this fight into one solely concerned about access for all.

Trying to get 4x4s banned is a pointless (and negative) way to approach the issue of keeping access to legal trails open because it would take away a large number of people who are currently fighting the same fight.

Volume of traffic wouldn't be such an issue if we weren't prevented from using so many routes that were previously open to us and as is often the way it's the easier routes that suffer the most damage and they're also the routes where the traffic and damage is most visible.

Voluntary bans don't work because all they do is prove how much better conditions become when no traffic passes so why give evidence against ourselves? I don't bother riding my bike on the few lanes open to me in western Cambridgeshire or north Bedfordshire any more because most of them have been wrecked and I'd sooner take my electric mountain bike and ride on bridleways