EU. In or out?

[xtzrick]

When Britain joined the EU, it should have done so completely. At school, I was taught metric but continued to live in an imperial country. Britain should have gone metric in every way, speed, distance, and changed to driving on the right. Britain was lost, it was part of the EU but wasn't European.

I grew up with metric & imperial, never a problem, even easier now we have online converters :cheer:

The thing that got me back in the 90s was how could the EU force our shop keepers to show metric labels yet we still got German cars with 13inch wheels? (now they're 16,17 etc inch wheels but still imperial :silly: )
Now, of coarse I realise it's big corporations with highly paid lobbyists that rule the roost & our small industries haven't got a chance.

Rick

[rlkat]

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Freedom to travel does not require membership of some special club..international agreements for free travel could and are negotiated by individual nations and prior to EU membership European travel was hardly a problem..quick flash of a passport and a baggage check usually all that was required.......

and freedom of travel makes us safer because...... as things get worse in the EU due to terrorism they will then realise that the freedoms will have to curtailed.


cheers Spud

vote out .and this will happen

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Fuck it! I'm voting 'remain'. No way am I going to ride a BMW!

ps: Is this a 'spot the difference' competition?

[Redmurty]

Luckily as a migrant I do have a vote and tomorrow will be voting remain.

My wife is an EU migrant who's worked and paid tax for 20 years, and brings a level of native and fluent language skills to our secondary schools that her British colleagues can't ever hope to achieve, unless they go and live in France and Spain for an extended period and study the grammar intricacies of those languages at University level.

EU membership directly affects her in many ways.

She isn't allowed to vote.

I know a few people like that and they are quite angry and rightfully so

cheers Spud

[onslowe]

A trip to Auschwitz this year brought home to me the horrors of hating someone just because they are different. First you demonise them as to being the cause of your problems. Then you think of them as being lesser humans. then this gives you justification to discriminate against them. It all happened to the Jews and I can see the similarities of parts of the Brexit group. This in no way tars all of the Brexit group with this claim. Just Farage and his ilk

Bit of a disgrace to play the Auschwitz card in this discussion, how the hell can that have anything whatsoever to do with us leaving Europe ? If we were trying to take over Europe and impose our wishes and rules on them then that would be more comparable and therefore more suitable as an argument against staying in if anything And yes I have been there !

[Redmurty]

image_2016-06-22-2.jpeg

Freedom to travel does not require membership of some special club..international agreements for free travel could and are negotiated by individual nations and prior to EU membership European travel was hardly a problem..quick flash of a passport and a baggage check usually all that was required.......

and freedom of travel makes us safer because...... as things get worse in the EU due to terrorism they will then realise that the freedoms will have to curtailed.


cheers Spud

vote out .and this will happen

image_2016-06-22-2.jpeg

Fuck it! I'm voting 'remain'. No way am I going to ride a BMW!

ps: Is this a 'spot the difference' competition?

FFS Al how and where? and that is such a hardship, If that's the biggest hardship you have when you travel well your bloody lucky.

Remember when I took you to Spain you ended up in a queue and I had to wait outside the gate for you, so what's change in that picture ? yes I know I rode through the wrong/right gate and are these gate going to be at every border crossing and just for the Brits.

and does that mean they will be checking for people smugglers, terrorist drugs traffickers ect ?

cheers Spud

[AndyB]

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Well that puts to bed the idea that we're governed by Europe and have to follow all their guidelines (thumbs)

[AndyB]

A trip to Auschwitz this year brought home to me the horrors of hating someone just because they are different. First you demonise them as to being the cause of your problems. Then you think of them as being lesser humans. then this gives you justification to discriminate against them. It all happened to the Jews and I can see the similarities of parts of the Brexit group. This in no way tars all of the Brexit group with this claim. Just Farage and his ilk

Bit of a disgrace to play the Auschwitz card in this discussion, how the hell can that have anything whatsoever to do with us leaving Europe ? If we were trying to take over Europe and impose our wishes and rules on them then that would be more comparable and therefore more suitable as an argument against staying in if anything And yes I have been there !

It makes a change from pictures of Spitfires and comments along the lines of "our men and women didn't fight the Germans in two wars to just give everything to them now"

I've even seen pictures of Angela Merkel dressed in a brown Nazi style uniform posted in various places by supporters of the Brexit campaign and I agree that bringing up Auschwitz is in pretty poor taste because I don't think anybody is advocating work camps for immigrants let alone murdering them.

[moto al]

Spud, never mind ,normal service be resumed by Saturday . (thumbs) and hope the foul mouthed will crawl back under the stones where he belongs . (thumbs) (thumbs) . Cheers Al

[rlkat]

Spud, never mind ,normal service be resumed by Saturday . (thumbs) and hope the foul mouthed will crawl back under the stones where he belongs . (thumbs) (thumbs) . Cheers Al

Didn't you have an avatar that said "The less I give a f*ck, the happier I am".. or words to that effect.

Potty-mouth!

[Brenhden]

A trip to Auschwitz this year brought home to me the horrors of hating someone just because they are different. First you demonise them as to being the cause of your problems. Then you think of them as being lesser humans. then this gives you justification to discriminate against them. It all happened to the Jews and I can see the similarities of parts of the Brexit group. This in no way tars all of the Brexit group with this claim. Just Farage and his ilk

Bit of a disgrace to play the Auschwitz card in this discussion, how the hell can that have anything whatsoever to do with us leaving Europe ? If we were trying to take over Europe and impose our wishes and rules on them then that would be more comparable and therefore more suitable as an argument against staying in if anything And yes I have been there !

I fully agree, the remain campaign (I think) has generally worked with a fair amount of dignity and tried not to demonise its opposition. It could have easily dragged that MP's murder into the rhetoric...

However, unintentional though it may be, this referendum and the brexit campaign is legitimizing far right views and actions. Here is an example from a friend of a friend, I don't completely agree with what's written down here but I thought it was worth sharing. This isn't the sort of thing I usually post and I wouldn't be suprised if I get a load of grief for posting. I'm not accusing leave supporters of racism or anything else. But this is the most devisive political event in my lifetime and I can see even here in my office and in my family the negative effect its having on people.



Sam Dodd
20 June at 18:34 ·
This morning I was attacked by an anti-EU chap on the tube. I've been shaken all day by it, and I'm deeply frightened and worried, for all of us. We need to get very real about the societal unrest that is being caused by the Leave campaign, and the violence that this then causes in turn.

He was irritated that the tube was held in the platform. When the driver came on over the tannoy, with a non-British accent, he screamed loudly a call to arms, for everyone on the tube to go down to the front cabin and murder him. To MURDER the driver. He then proceeded to shout and yell about getting him out of our country, and that England is fu.cked because of foreigners, and they all lie. Make no mistake: this is Leave rhetoric.

I had my back to him the whole time, and specifically did not turn round or make eye contact, because I was already shaking. I then received a blow to the back of my head, which was his umbrella that he'd thrown in anger, having gotten himself worked up into such a state that presumably he couldn't hold it in any longer. I froze, my mouth fell open, and I began to shake violently. I have no idea whether it was aimed specifically at me, though that doesn't really matter.

Near me was a Hasidic Jew male. He was about seven feet tall and, thankfully, built like a brick sh1thouse. He slowly stepped behind me, and put his hand on my shoulder, which is when the tears began to fall uncontrollably (but silently, as I was FU.CKED if that pr1ck would know he had upset me). On my right was another man in his sixties, who moved closer to my side, muttered something comforting, and looked in my eyes steadfastly while keeping his eye on the chap behind me. It is an excrutiatingly long time between Barbican and Farringdon, by the way. The next stop was mine so I touched the Jewish man's hand and bolted up the stairs straight into Pret. When I arrived at work I found out another colleague had been punched in the side on the tube as well, because she was apparently 'in the way'. Another act of violence to a female by a male. The viciousness of this referendum is rife right now, it is cutting across all of society, and it is TERRIFYING.

A colleague said that the last time she remembers it being this bad in Britain was in the dark days of Enoch Powells seventies. Rivers of Blood was a stain on humanity. I was not alive yet then, but I have read it, and it made me feel physically sick. I am worried about this referendum to a level that makes it hard for me to fu.cking breathe. There are people that will suffer a lot more than I have today - people who will be specifically targeted because of their skin tone or even because they wear an EU Remain badge; people who are going about their day and hoping for a better future where we don't recreate fucking Nazi propaganda and stand proudly by it, or target people based on their nationality, religion or political leanings. Jo Cox was fucking MURDERED by a violently anti-EU man. They are not just words; threats of violence that are sanctioned and encouraged by those at the top cause a tidal wave of shit and people ACT OUT THEIR THREATS. Please look after each other in the next few weeks. Watch out for violence in public and protect yourselves. Spread as much love and positivity as you possibly can. Write about it. Make art about it. Do whatever you can to channel the pain positively. Look after your loved ones and nurture them, and especially watch out for POC and Muslims, because they will suffer enormously from these tensions, WHATEVER the outcome of the vote is. Spread. The. Love. Even when it's hard and all you want to do is hide. (Tbf though, I'm on my way home to do just that - hide under my covers until tomorrow which is a new day).

There are two redeeming features to this story. One is that Hasidic Jew males are generally forbidden from touching females other than their wives, so that hulk of a beautiful man transgressed religious norms in order to comfort and protect me. Another is that the lady in Pret (who was Eastern European - yeah I know right?) came out from behind the counter and held my hand, then gave me a free coffee. I later sent an email to their head office about her to make them aware that they have an amazing employee. You gotta pass this shit on.

In the words of Jo Cox, "we have far more in common than that which divides us."

Please don't let the EU divide you from your fellow humans. Vote with your heart, not with your hate. Please.