One year on was it worth it?

[OB1]

Here is how the vote to leave the EU has affected me and the company I work for:
The company is an IT distributor selling to schools, colleges, universities, banks, government and anyone else who needs large-scale IT roll-outs. We supply the hardware and the support that keeps it all working. The company isn't big with around 100 employees, but it is very established and well known. If you have children in education from junior school to university, we probably supplied their Chromebook, laptop, desktop, or tablet.
The day after the vote, we came in to work and it was as if someone had died... there was a subdued atmosphere and everyone was saying "what the f*ck happened" or "what the f*ck is going to happen now".
A week after the vote, Apple put their prices up 20%. :blink:
Two weeks after the vote, Samsung, Acer, HP and the rest started putting their prices up by 10%.
As we all know, budgets in education, local government, the NHS, etc. have been squeezed over the preceding years so now, all of these establishments have less money and the hardware that they need costs between 10 and 20% more than before the vote.
The company is very generous as there is a profit sharing scheme, so the harder we work and the more money the company makes, the larger the pay cheque at the end of the month. We have had no profit sharing bonus for over 3 months.
There have been many meetings between the four main share holders over the past couple of months which is making everyone nervous as hell... we're still waiting for the first wave of redundancies...
I have only been with the company for two years and I work in marketing so I'm not holding my breath. As I know from previous experience, the marketing department is always on of the first to feel the cuts as it can be easily farmed out to freelancers.
I feel that those who voted because of "the EU pushing too many regulations" or "too much immigration" or "the faceless bureaucracy of Brussels" or the plethora of other reasons were very short sighted. This is why (and it is only my opinion):
After WWII, we were a strong manufacturing nation that invented, manufactured and produced products which sold all over the World. As an aid to keep peace in Europe, the Common Market was formed making it easier to trade with our nearest neighbours: this evolved and grew over the following decades into the EEC and then the European Union with its common currency and open borders giving free flow of goods and people within its borders.
During this period, the United Kingdom also underwent a lot of change, going from a manufacturing and production country into a service and finance country. I remember when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s that most of the electronic products that we owned had Made in England stamped on them, even my first computers were made by Sinclair and Dragon (a Welsh company). Circumstances changed and the east opened up to producing ever cheaper products, squeezing the margins of the UK manufacturers which helped usher in the depression of the late 1980s.
We now import far more than we produce or export. We rely on the rest of the World for almost every consumable. The European Union helps keep things manageable as it acts like a larger trading bloc than a small country like the UK could ever wish to be. Regardless of what people want to believe, we are a small, almost insignificant country in the World-wide scheme of things: we may have once been a global leader on whose empire the sun never set but we are no longer.
Here's the reason (sorry it took a while): we rely so much on other countries around the World whether we like it or not. You want to eat any type of fresh fruit or vegetables at any time of the year? Try growing peppers or grapes in the UK in December. You don't want to pay more than a certain price for a certain commodity, then it has to be made in the Far East or Pakistan or any other country that doesn't have the minimum wage and unions to ensure workers' rights. These commodities then have to be imported and, just so that we don't pay too high a tariff, the EU of 28 countries acts as one big trading bloc reducing the burden that we would have if we acted alone.
To say that the EU forces us to implement certain laws is a misnomer: whilst the rest of mainland Europe were adopting the open borders and free movement for people within the Schengen Zone; we didn't. Countries throughout the mainland clambered to join a common currency (that didn't take into account the difference between northern and southern economies); we didn't (even though we had the youngest currency within the region since we decimalised in the early 70s).
Anyhoo... this has gone on far longer than I was expecting... :S
One year on; was it worth is? NO! We are staring down the abyss and the ledge is crumbling...

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

The Japanese would no doubt be happy to do 'a deal' with us...but it won't be the same deal. They will dictate the terms, and we will write them down!
They already took the unusual step, pre-referendum, of asking the UK to remain in the EU. We ignored then. They won't feel that they owe us any favours. It takes years to put a deal like that between Japan and the EU together. We currently have little or no expertise in getting such deals. On day one of Brexit negotiations, our negotiators agreed that we would pay the EU whatever they asked with no promise of anything at all in return. So, the world knows we are weak, and the Japanese in particular do not respect weakness.
And the main advantage for Japan in the deal with the EU, is that it sees the phasing out of the 10% tariff on Japanese passenger cars. Without that tariff barrier, there are fewer reasons for them to keep their UK car manufacturing operations running. Why should they? They can export direct Japan - EU with no tariff barrier, but exports of components to the UK for assembly and then onward shipment to EU will face a tariff on entry to the UK, and then potentially a tariff of 20 % on WTO rules to export the complete vehicle from UK to EU. If they do want local assembly, then the European Union is the obvious place to relocate it, because the tariff on automotive components (as opposed to complete vehicles) is to be phased out even faster.
It's hard to see a business case for keeping any Japanese car manufacturing in the UK post-Brexit. I've said above what the Nissan one is worth. There's also Toyota and Honda to consider.
Even Jaguar Land Rover will be hit by Brexit. There will be a tariff on imported components such as ZF transmissions, and also JLR will not be able to tender for Government contracts with EU nations. If you go to France or Italy you see the police love posing about in their Land Rover Discoveries. That market will go.
You will struggle to find any serious business organisation (CBI, RHA, FTA , SMMT, IOD etc) that thinks that the hard 'Brexit means Brexit' strategy currently being pursued by the Tories and supported by Corbyn on the Labour front bench will be anything other than an economic disaster. They are begging for us to stay in the Single Market or at least the Customs Union.
And that's before we even start on the social aspect...
I approached the Brexit debate with an open mind. I hunted out all the info I could find, from both sides. It seemed to me that the Sun and the Express were pro Brexit, while the Financial Times and the Economist were pro remain.
I wondered which were likely to be better-informed. Hmmm...difficult choice there...
In fact, I hunted high and low, and found virtually no source of a coherent economic argument against continued membership of the EU.
And now we've voted out...and I still can't! The nearest I've found is a load of tosh about WWII aeroplanes.

[hornet]

Was it worth it
unquestionably
No
Its created uncertainty across the board in every sector from finance to farming. Uncertainty is far more destructive than actual bad news.
Every single out voter I've spoken to has said the same line
"well it will work out in the end "
And how long will that be then
" erm well "
so what good has it done so far
" silence followed by a ramble about foreigners taking jobs and benefits"
Well that's just great thanks for your thoughtful insight
Mike

[DavidS]

.....and the KNOWN prognosis for the future in the EU is?
Where we have 1/28th of the input with an increase in numbers so a dilution of relevance.
Our future in the EU or the future of the EU certainly aren't clear cut. I am sure it cannot survive with everyone wanting or giving something different.
Do we wait to go down with a potentially sinking ship or get our 'retaliation' in first?

[hornet]

.....and the KNOWN prognosis for the future in the EU is?
Where we have 1/28th of the input with an increase in numbers so a dilution of relevance.

Our future in the EU or the future of the EU certainly aren't clear cut. I am sure it cannot survive with everyone wanting or giving something different.
Do we wait to go down with a potentially sinking ship or get our 'retaliation' in first?

In an uncertain world being in is better than standing alone. the votes in recent elections in eu have shown confidence from the public in the eu. yes it has problems no its not perfect it can't be and never will but blaming it for our problems in nonsense

[Simon_100]

I never expected to have to correct you Simon, but the Mossos operate alongside the GC, not in place of, and as you know the GC are more of a token gesture.

Hi Alan, let's nit split hairs but,

"Current role[edit]
The Mossos d'Esquadra have now replaced Spain's Policia Nacional and Guardia Civil within the territory of Catalonia. This process of substitution began in 1994 and was completed in 2008.[2] In November 2005, the Mossos took full duties in the city of Barcelona.
The Mossos d'Esquadra are a police force of the Spanish state placed under the authority of the Generalitat de Catalunya, within the territory of the autonomous community of Catalonia, and in accordance with the principles of the Spanish constitution and all legal provisions therefrom derived, such as the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia and the laws therefrom derived. The Policia Nacional and the Guardia Civil, on the other hand, are commanded directly by the Spanish ministry of the interior. They keep some officers in Catalonia to handle terrorism, identity documents, immigration and other limited responsibilities of the central government.[3]"

From Wikipedia. But having said that there are some important omissions, such as customs and excise and especially the crack SEPRONA service - and when they say 'Jump' believe me you jump, including polluting multinationals ... (thumbs)

Regs

Simon

PS hot on the TV news this morning is that the 'oppositions' - the selection process for public sector jobs and training, etc. has widened its criteria for entering the Mosses, the age limit is now up form 35 to 65 and you van have tattoos, whatever next ...

"En aquesta nova convocatòria es canviaran alguns dels requisits: s'elimina el límit d'edat de 35 anys i s'hi podran presentar persones de 18 a 65 anys. Pel que fa a la formació, ja no n'hi haurà prou de tenir l'ESO, ja que es demanarà, com a mínim, tenir el títol de Batxillerat."

Just to hep you through it ...

"In this new call, some of the requirements will be changed: the age limit of 35 years is eliminated and people aged 18-65 can be present. Regarding the training, it will no longer be necessary to have ESO, since it will be required, as a minimum, to have the Baccalaureate*"

* that's basically an 'A' level ...

[OB1]

Do we wait to go down with a potentially sinking ship or get our 'retaliation' in first?

That seems to be the problem in the UK these days: everything is so confrontational. What do you think we are retaliating against? Just chill out. Live and let live.

[AlanHolt]

Lol, well despite what Wikipedia says, we still have GC and NP active here in Tarragona region, hence why I questioned the 'take over'.

[Simon_100]

Lol, well despite what Wikipedia says, we still have GC and NP active here in Tarragona region, hence why I questioned the 'take over'.

Lol indeed Alan, I remember when you said that the GC just collected dog licences! :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

I was out your way today, well more or less, and stopped at a REPSOl and cafe just outside Mora la Nova on my way down to Tortosa, maybe you know it? Two Brits getting drunk at two in the afternoon with a local guy - not drunk- doing 'Guirrismo' +++ at their expense ... I pity Britain if and when these morons have to be repatriated!


Stay happy on your farm matey! (thumbs)

Regs

Simon

PS when these circumstance occur Mrs S and I have long since perfected the art of looking anything other than English, partly because in many respects we're not and she speaks German quite fluently when she wants to ...

[AlanHolt]

I know the place, but we avoid anywhere that attracts alcoholic Brit's. We should meet up sometime, I'm much less annoying in person.