Adventure Bike Rider Forum

ttproducts wrote:

Old Git Ray wrote:

ttproducts wrote:I'm In. I found this earlier:

"What did the EU ever do for us? Not much, apart from:-

providing 57% of our trade;

...................

you missed: (I should have said "he missed" - sorry)

Removing our right to enforce our own laws;

Adding numerous layers of government;

Making us eat straight cucumbers:

etc...etc.
-----------------------

This is just from the top of my head, not from some professor who is clearly paid by the government purse, to do something other than look for reasons to keep us in the EU.

NB..... I am not IN or OUT...yet.

Are you saying none of what I posted is true or just that it doesn't agree with your way of thinking?

The 'outers' say:

a) We can't implement our own laws to suit us so we should be out

and

b) EU laws can be interpreted and the UK chooses to interpret them in our own way so we should be out.

Logic and reason doesn't seem to have much of a place in this conversation.

I'm also surprised to see someone using the fact that the UK introduced disabled access and no-smoking laws as a reason why the EU is bad and we should leave

ttproducts wrote:I'm In. I found this earlier:

"What did the EU ever do for us? Not much, apart from:-

providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Simon Sweeney,

Lecturer in international political economy, University of York"

scutty wrote:All the people that mention the UK is unable to enforce it's own laws - are you referring to the European Court of Human Rights as a bad thing?

Mawnanian wrote:
The ECHR is a separate entity from the EU, many people don't understand this and blame the EU when the Daily Mail reports occasions when we can't treat people they don't like the way they'd like them treated.

scutty wrote:All the people that mention the UK is unable to enforce it's own laws - are you referring to the European Court of Human Rights as a bad thing?

Scott_rider wrote:

Mawnanian wrote:
The ECHR is a separate entity from the EU, many people don't understand this and blame the EU when the Daily Mail reports occasions when we can't treat people they don't like the way they'd like them treated.

It is separate to the EU but we ONLY have to abide by it because we are a member of the EU. If we come out of the EU then we don't have to and we can revert back to our own justice system for human rights issues.

Mawnanian wrote:

Scott_rider wrote:

Mawnanian wrote:
The ECHR is a separate entity from the EU, many people don't understand this and blame the EU when the Daily Mail reports occasions when we can't treat people they don't like the way they'd like them treated.

It is separate to the EU but we ONLY have to abide by it because we are a member of the EU. If we come out of the EU then we don't have to and we can revert back to our own justice system for human rights issues.

Not exactly, we were signed up to it before we even joined the common market. We can always ignore it's rulings but then that applies whether we are in the EU or not. Instead we enshrined it's anthority in the Human Rights Act which we can't ignore as it's UK law.
BTW I support it.