EU. In or out?

[Chunkychops]

imo the size and complexity of the problems faced by the two are completely different ..making comparison impossible ..
.... :blink: seems to me the greatest threat is the euro going down the toilet - has anyone noticed the extent of the bad news they have bottled up in spain-italy-portugal?
accumulated debt for these countries is presently.. 3,433,176,548,772 euros or £2,231,564,756,701(appx), the UK has about £1,553,010,309,388 debt in comparison
‌ :huh:
when you compare this to the size of their economies, you realise they are in deep doodoo

I fail to see why this silly argument regularly trotted out is of any relevance. We have an independent currency and if anything, when the Euro goes down as it did a couple of years ago, we benefited as all of a sudden everyone wanted to invest in the UK economy. There are so many crap arguments being put out by the leave campaign. As the saying goes - the emptier the can the louder it rattles.

Yep got to agree. The emptier the can the louder it rattles.
This is why the stay in group are making such a noise and telling downright lies to scare the people into voting in.
I have just received another leaflet through the letter box supposedly quoting various "experts" on why we should stay in. What a load of shit. One of the experts quoted is Martin Lewis. Self proclaimed money saving expert. Well those compiling the leaflet made a balls up. Mr Lewis wrote: 'I wasn't aware I'd be used in the Stronger in Europe leaflet, nor was my permission asked.'
If you want to know the truth have a look at this article. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ssion.html

Another "expert" quoted is Karen Brady. She is the Small Business Ambassador to the UK Government under Prime Minister David Cameron.

Yet another, Frances O'Grady. You may never have heard of her? Have a read of the article. Just another champagne socialist. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... y-TUC.html

And we are expected to be influence to stay in with this, yet another round of scare tactics. Bollocks. All this leaflet has done is convince me how desperate these wealthy individuals are to protect their interests. As you say, The emptier the can the louder it rattles.

PS, All the Southern EU states are bankrupt. The Northern EU states will end up picking up these debts. This is what happens when individual countries are unable to control their own currencies.

Austrian Election results.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... bert-hofer
This shows just how well the EU works and it won't get any better with the current immigration problems. The far right candidate was beaten by the narrowest of margins.

'The Truth' in the Daily Wail? You couldn't make this 'Out' drivel up. Is this the best the Out campaign can come up with? Most Universities, Scientists( think CERN, European Space Agency etc, Business and The Arts benefit from a united Union - This is what drives unfettered research and development for the good of our society I guess NONE of this matters for the Brexiters. They want out - at any cost - financial, intellectual and cultural.

[daytona-supersport]

Cern,
Funding agencies from both member and non-member states are responsible for the financing, construction and operation of the experiments on which they collaborate. CERN spends much of its budget on building machines such as the Large Hadron Collider and it only partially contributes to the cost of the experiments.

PS, I forgot to mention, CERN laboratory sits astride the Franco-Swiss border near Geneva. Switzerland is not an EU member. Still never mind, they seem to get along OK with the rest of Europe.

Quote,
It has, political analyst Dieter Freiburghaus says, worked quite well.
"Switzerland was only interested in the economic aspect of European integration, and that we got: we got access to the internal market. So our economy had a lot of gains. We have the cake and we eat it… at the moment."


ESA Contributors.
Country: European Multinational Efforts, France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Russia, Spain, United Kingdom, United States
Not exactly wholly EU dependent then. ESA his is a joint commercial venture and there is no reason why this relationship should not continue will the UK as a contributing partner. Based in Paris, the French would be the biggest losers if the UK were to be excluded from this venture.

Businesses.
The EU is the single most restrictive influence on the UK's trading with the rest of the world due to the EU's protectionist policies. They are a lot more dependent on UK consumers than the UK on the declining EU market.

The Arts.
I think the UK will be adequately able to fund the arts with a small fraction of the monies saved from not contributing to the EU budget. Perhaps you are far better informed and can advise me of the specific areas of the arts that would be adversely affected by the UK's exit from the EU.

If I did not believe in and have confidence that the UK could prosper outside of the EU, I would vote to stay in. I don't have any political bias in this.

[dave448]

The trouble is that it's our Parliament and we elect them every time.
just a thought ..if we remain in ..we won't need to vote again because all the choices will be made by eu . .. on the plus side ..that crowd will make dave look good B)

[Chunkychops]

Cern,
Funding agencies from both member and non-member states are responsible for the financing, construction and operation of the experiments on which they collaborate. CERN spends much of its budget on building machines such as the Large Hadron Collider and it only partially contributes to the cost of the experiments.

PS, I forgot to mention, CERN laboratory sits astride the Franco-Swiss border near Geneva. Switzerland is not an EU member. Still never mind, they seem to get along OK with the rest of Europe.

Quote,
It has, political analyst Dieter Freiburghaus says, worked quite well.
"Switzerland was only interested in the economic aspect of European integration, and that we got: we got access to the internal market. So our economy had a lot of gains. We have the cake and we eat it… at the moment."


ESA Contributors.
Country: European Multinational Efforts, France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Russia, Spain, United Kingdom, United States
Not exactly wholly EU dependent then. ESA his is a joint commercial venture and there is no reason why this relationship should not continue will the UK as a contributing partner. Based in Paris, the French would be the biggest losers if the UK were to be excluded from this venture.

Businesses.
The EU is the single most restrictive influence on the UK's trading with the rest of the world due to the EU's protectionist policies. They are a lot more dependent on UK consumers than the UK on the declining EU market.

The Arts.
I think the UK will be adequately able to fund the arts with a small fraction of the monies saved from not contributing to the EU budget. Perhaps you are far better informed and can advise me of the specific areas of the arts that would be adversely affected by the UK's exit from the EU.

If I did not believe in and have confidence that the UK could prosper outside of the EU, I would vote to stay in. I don't have any political bias in this.

You cannot compare the Swiss economy with that of ours. I guess most of it is in the financial sector i.e. Banking. The UK economy is way more mixed and interdependent on that of the Union.
You also forget that Switzerland, Norway et al have never been an integral member of the Union so therefore they have had a blank template from the start and besides, any trade they do with Europe is done to
conditions they have little say in or be able to influence. I seriously cannot see how we can reset our relationship to a 'factory setting' with a massive cost which would wipe out any imaginary gain.
With the Sciences, I know universities share intellectual resources with other institutions, staff are able to easily move from country to country without the red tape. One of my friends works for Eurocontrol in Paris, a European wide airtraffic control system that is essential for the next generation. This only works because European integration.
As far as The Arts is concerned, my understanding is that there is a very large amount of funding for UK arts that is as a result of being in Europe. I will research this.
The Union is not perfect in any way but we are where we are because of our useless politicians who have done f**k all in all this time and that is as a result of us doing f**k all in taking any interest or holding any of these useless tw*ts to account. It would be better to change these system from within.

[rlkat]

There is absolutely no chance of 'changing the system from within'. Just look at Cameron's recent pathetic 'negotiations'. The ultimate agenda of TPTB is a European super state with one government, one financial system, one tax system, one army and one way of life.

No thanks.

[dave448]

holding any of these useless tw*ts to account.
well ..they give us a mandate based on the first past the post every 5 years or so ..none of the choices in the elections affect the eu (IMO).. they wave lots of incremental stuff at you to make you feel like they are in charge and your vote counts.
but depending how the majorities fall, something like 30% (guess) decide the fate of the rest. in practice politicians avoid giving you a choice ..how can they have power if they give you a choice?
There is a theory on how democracies fail ..the romans spotted it first (i think) the roman army needed to be kept sweet when a new emperor came on the throne ...soo he declared a 10% (or so) pay rise for them all...the army then realised they could kill another emperor and get another 10% ....my point is elections are won by whoever promises the most (bribing the electorate) ..so when there is more money ..everyone gets fat and lazy ..overcome by a feeling of entitlement ..imo B)

[Dutchgit]

The ultimate agenda of TPTB is a European super state with one government, one financial system, one tax system, one army and one way of life.

No thanks.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

What a load of tosh that is.
You do what most out voters do: Make up facts and truths and try to scare people who think something else is better.

[AndyB]

Just file it in the same bucket as the idea that we might as well not have our own elections because the evil empire over the water makes all our decisions for us.

Some ideas are so ludicrous that even Nigel Farage wouldn't try to use them

[daytona-supersport]

The ultimate agenda of TPTB is a European super state with one government, one financial system, one tax system, one army and one way of life.

No thanks.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

What a load of tosh that is.
You do what most out voters do: Make up facts and truths and try to scare people who think something else is better.

.

Tosh. Hmmm.
That's an interesting comment coming from anybody advocating staying in the EU.

We already have an EU judicial system that frequently over rides decisions made by the UK's high court. Laws determined by the EU and the total inability to effectively control our own borders.
Eventually the UK will use the Euro as the independent pound is deeply resented by other EU states, especially those that have dire economic problems cause by the inability to control their own currencies. In order to work cohesively the tax systems must ultimately be harmonised across EU member states to avoid tax evasion and financial migration by companies and individuals. The EU have clearly stated that the goal is for a fully integrated EU military. Who will have the ultimate control of this standing army? The EU expansionist policies have already been the cause of retaliation by Russia.

For the EU to work there must be ever closer ties in all areas. The problem with this grand scheme is that one cannot compare the members of the club as being in any way equal in many fundamental areas. Within the EU there will always be wealthier members subsidising the less wealthy. Similar arguments are valid for all aspects of the EU. It just is not possible long term to have inequalities within the system. This is the EU's biggest failing. Like all great socialist ideals it just simply does not work. Certainly not for the benefit of the working people. I can however work very well for those holding the reins of power. Ultimately that is what this is all about. Money and power for the elite few.

[threepot]

Quote..'Certainly not for the benefit of the working people. I can however work very well for those holding the reins of power. Ultimately that is what this is all about. Money and power for the elite few.'

Sounds a bit like the 'Kalergi Plan'? Allow mass immigration. Overtime the indigenous peoples become the 'minority',lose any sense of patriotism and identity,and don't care who governs,rule them? Prove to me it's not happening!