Covid 19 Coronavirus

[Mad Hatter]

Thing is Gary we dont really want it going nuts over winter, the NHS wont cope, the nurses need a break.
Also do you now understand the thousands of scientists agreeing with you were perhaps not exactly scientists?

Professor Sucharit Bhakdi (University of Mainz)
Dr Rajiv Bhatia (Physician, USA)
Professor Stephen Bremner (University of Sussex)
Professor Anthony J Brookes (University of Leicester)
Dr Helen Colhoun (University of Edinburgh)
Professor Angus Dalgleish (St. George’s, University of London)
Dr Sylvia Fogel (Harvard)
Dr Eitan Friedman (Tel Aviv University)
Dr Uri Gavish (Biomedical consultant)
Professor Motti Gerlic (Tel Aviv University)
Dr Gabriela Gomes (University of Strathclyde)
Professor Mike Hulme (University of Cambridge)
Dr Michael Jackson (University of Canterbury, New Zealand)
Dr David Katz (Yale University)
Dr Andrius Kavaliunas (Karolinska Institute)
Dr Laura Lazzeroni (Stanford)
Dr Michael Levitt (Stanford)
Professor David Livermore (University of East Anglia)
Dr Jonas Ludvigsson (Örebro University Hospital, Sweden)
Dr Paul McKeigue (University of Edinburgh)
Dr Cody Meissner (Tufts University)
Professor Ariel Munitz (Tel Aviv University)
Professor Yaz Gulnur Muradoglu (Queen Mary University of London)
Professor Partha P. Majumder (Indian Statistical Institute, Kolkata)
Professor Udi Qimron (Tel Aviv University)
Professor Matthew Ratcliffe (University of York)
Dr Mario Recker (University of Exeter)
Dr Eyal Shahar (University of Arizona)
Professor Karol Sikora (Rutherford Health)
Dr Rodney Sturdivant (Baylor University)
Dr Simon Thornley (University of Auckland)
Professor Ellen Townsend (University of Nottingham)
Professor Lisa White (Oxford University)
Professor Simon Wood (University of Edinburgh)

^^ these are some of the thousands of bona fide scientists that `agree with me`
not that i need anyone to agree with me .. and my opinion does not count really, does it?

the nhs wont cope??? ... didnt we hear that the last time? .. time has passed .. and to be fair the nhs now has nightingales. .. even though `not cope` was the good excuse for the previous unneeded lockdown.

the nurses need a break? .. thats not MY fault or anyone elses apart from the tory government. .. underfunding etc etc

the poor nurses, clap for the nurses, what heroes they are, they are so wonderful .... well ... PAY them properly then, for the heroic work they are doing, despite tory cuts .... dont use them as an excuse to enter an flawed lockdown
just sayin

My Mrs was working up in the itu the first time round, she normally works in theatres as an ODP, she's not a nurse but a theatre practicioner who's trained to use the ventilators. She had to go up along with a bunch of other staff because there wasn't enough normal ventilators and the ITU nurses weren't trained on the theatre models and not enough ITU staff to start with, its meant to be 1 to 1 care up there. she volunteered even though she counts as at risk because she felt like it was something she needed to do.

She didn't ask for more pay
She didn't ask for a clap once a week
She didn't ask to do 14 hour shifts 5 or 6 days a week
She didn't ask to have to try and take care of 2 or 3 patients at a time
She didn't ask to have to hold up iPads so people could say goodbye to there dying loved ones while they were in a coma
She didn't ask to sit and watch people slowly dying
She didn't ask to have to work even more hours to cover staff that were getting covid
she didn't ask for people that she works with getting spat at by covid positive patients
And she certainly didn't ask for the Torries!

She asked for enough PPE so she could take proper breaks, every time you touch the mask it goes in the bin because its not clean anymore, you want a drink, that's it off it all comes and new stuff goes on.
She asked for enough ventilators and beds for patients
and she asked for people to stay at home and not get it, its not a long list is it.

The nurses do need a break, they need to be paid properly, the NHS does need funding properly and they definitely need more staff, but all of those things won't make any difference right now to what's going on RIGHT NOW because that will take years not days or weeks.

Thousands of people have died, real people, thousands more WILL die, real people just like you or me, what most normal people with a shred of empathy are hoping for is to limit the amount of people who die and to try and reduce the suffering and trauma of the patients, loved ones and the staff.

But fuck all that THE ECONOMY!

[qcnr]

My Mrs was working up in the itu the first time round, she normally works in theatres as an ODP, she's not a nurse but a theatre practicioner who's trained to use the ventilators. She had to go up along with a bunch of other staff because there wasn't enough normal ventilators and the ITU nurses weren't trained on the theatre models and not enough ITU staff to start with, its meant to be 1 to 1 care up there. she volunteered even though she counts as at risk because she felt like it was something she needed to do.

She didn't ask for more pay
She didn't ask for a clap once a week
She didn't ask to do 14 hour shifts 5 or 6 days a week
She didn't ask to have to try and take care of 2 or 3 patients at a time
She didn't ask to have to hold up iPads so people could say goodbye to there dying loved ones while they were in a coma
She didn't ask to sit and watch people slowly dying
She didn't ask to have to work even more hours to cover staff that were getting covid
she didn't ask for people that she works with getting spat at by covid positive patients
And she certainly didn't ask for the Torries!

She asked for enough PPE so she could take proper breaks, every time you touch the mask it goes in the bin because its not clean anymore, you want a drink, that's it off it all comes and new stuff goes on.
She asked for enough ventilators and beds for patients
and she asked for people to stay at home and not get it, its not a long list is it.

The nurses do need a break, they need to be paid properly, the NHS does need funding properly and they definitely need more staff, but all of those things won't make any difference right now to what's going on RIGHT NOW because that will take years not days or weeks.

Thousands of people have died, real people, thousands more WILL die, real people just like you or me, what most normal people with a shred of empathy are hoping for is to limit the amount of people who die and to try and reduce the suffering and trauma of the patients, loved ones and the staff.

But fuck all that THE ECONOMY!

It will never happen with the current lot in charge anyway. Their only interest is looking out for themselves and handing out dodgy contracts to their mates. As well as splitting the NHS up to sell off to other mates...

[daveuprite]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus

Actually this article tackles it more directly and gets it right IMO:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... half-baked

[Mad Hatter]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus

Actually this article tackles it more directly and gets it right IMO:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... half-baked

I took a look at the first link and before I hit the gaurdian paywall I noticed the phrase unpalatable mentioned in relation to how many people would die. So I did some quick maths:

The population of the UK as a whole in 2019 according to the one was 66,769,800, let's round that down to 66 million.

Let's say half the population is at risk so we isolate them completely from the virus, its an ideal model so we'll ignore how.

That leaves us 33 million people apparently not at risk.

Let's say in that 33 million the mortality rate drops to 0.5% and we reach herd immunity at 70%
If my maths is right that means roughly 115,500 people die.

I can't figure out how to get that number any lower than that and the current mortality rate is between 3 & 4%. It terrifies me people are actually advocating this theory.

[catcitrus]

I've just seen film of the "entitled" little shits in liverpool paying no respect whatsoever to social distancing, wearing masks etc--and then probably going home to give Covid to their parents or grandparents. We should really get the riot police out and water cannons, arrest them and bang them up for a couple of weeks to cool off.

[garyboy]

the mortality rate has always been quoted as 0.1% .. which would give around 66,000 people dead.
take what say 10% off that for the oldies and vulvas arable, if they were protected properly .. so say 60,000 deaded. (with an immunity program, with no lockdowns )

How many do you think have died already, with a bad policy ... 40,000 plus those not counted, easily gives over 60,000 .. and i think it is a lot more, double that once the lies are revealed.
.then there is all the cancer, groin ops, silicon valley tits jobs gone wrong .. so that is another 120, 000 to come.... making 240,000 dead, dying, soon to be snuffed ... with this hair brained policy of lockdown\

instead of locking down an area..... lock down the vulnards, oldies, and party goers ...
lock down those people ... not an area.

i can ride my bike then ..

and let the youngers injoy they selves ...

[Mad Hatter]

the mortality rate has always been quoted as 0.1% .. which would give around 66,000 people dead.
take what say 10% off that for the oldies and vulvas arable, if they were protected properly .. so say 60,000 deaded. (with an immunity program, with no lockdowns )

How many do you think have died already, with a bad policy ... 40,000 plus those not counted, easily gives over 60,000 .. and i think it is a lot more, double that once the lies are revealed.
.then there is all the cancer, groin ops, silicon valley tits jobs gone wrong .. so that is another 120, 000 to come.... making 240,000 dead, dying, soon to be snuffed ... with this hair brained policy of lockdown\

instead of locking down an area..... lock down the vulnards, oldies, and party goers ...
lock down those people ... not an area.

i can ride my bike then ..

and let the youngers injoy they selves ...

Where has it been quoted as 0.1%

Let's have a look at world enter eh, so they've got 617,688 cases and 42,875 deaths. That's not 0.1%.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Also if there's already more than 66 thousand dead and the mortality rate is what you state we should've already reached herd immunity so the cases should be going down. Hmm that's a bit strange they aren't isn't it

[garyboy]

Hi,
The World Health Organisation has always said it is 1%
My mouse is dead and doesnt have a tail, so i cannot copy and paste .. but if you google WHO what is the death percentage for covid 19 .. it will tell you its 0.5 - 1%.
They make a distinction between deaths per tested case .. and deaths per hospitalised cases .. but the general idea is there. (I cant be botherd to read it all)

on march 23 it seemed obvious to be to do the sweden thing .. but even they grossely neglected the care home p3ople and, like us, have had huge numbers dead in this setting .. they did not protect the vulnerable.

Her, in the Uk, the government actively pushed infected old people into the private sector care homes .. and this is where our huge figures mostly come from.


the excuse was to save the nhs, which we a;; love...... but the real reason was to save face for the government who had run the nhs down over a decade.


Lockdown only served to slow the virus spread down ... ots always been there, but not allowed to spread into the strong population ehre there is natural immunity.


this so called second wave, actually the first wave, is still to save the nhs? ... so why was it not built up to germany levels ... yes, it needs people but there coud be lower level jobs helping the more skilled etc etc etc.

so as the first lockdowns were so successful (not) .. we doing it agin... with the same nhs excuse reason.
again to cover government failings.



the 60,000 already dead are, remember, mostly the old and vulnerable, so the percentages are high .... and the virus has not got into the strong population so much\

So if you use the phrase herd immunity .. it has not had chance to build up ..... just the old codgers got the brunt

appologies for the typings

[Oop North John]

For those who hope herd immunity is the silver bullet, ask this American if he thinks it works:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54512034

[Mad Hatter]

Gary mate you need to keep your numbers straight, if the mortality rate is 1% and the whole country gets it that 600,000 people snuffing it, that well Seems like a lot, even at 0.5% that's a lot.

I'm more than happy to admit the government response has been rubbish, and I'll happily shout from the rooftops how much I dislike the current lot in charge but I doubt JC could've done much better or anyone else for that matter. we've had the makings of a flu pandemic a few times but the last actual one was 1918. But that certainly doesn't excuse the fact that the Torries bad planning and years of cuts helped kill thousands of people, I won't forget that and one day they will have to answer for it.

The point in our lockdown was never to get rid of the virus, it wasn't going to without shutting the borders earlier and still having them closed. It was to reduce the numbers to reduce the deaths by not having to deny people access to things like ventilators and CPAP machines. Without a vaccine or herd immunity, or both, We aren't going to get back to what we considered normal but I doubt we will anyway.

society and the global nature of how the world works nowadays needs a change for the sake of the planet and human kinds future anyway so why not embrace that, why don't we actually give what all the Brexit voters banged on about a chance and make our country a lot more self sufficient, let's get our new jobless making our own PPE and working on British farms and all the other stuff we need. As a nation we have the facilities, man power and knowledge to achieve all of that and more and dig ourselves out of the national pit of depression and austerity.

I'm not saying we can stop this dead in its tracks if we lock everything down, we won't, I'm saying we should try and slow it down in the hope we can save some people. At the moment the hospitals are open again and trying to catch up on the backlog, if the covid numbers go up again then that's when that stops. Personally I think any excess deaths from anything are too many but that isn't an achievable aim we should be aiming to try and reduce the overall death toll from everything as well as covid but covid going mental in flu season isn't the way to do that.

Also at the moment not that many places are in "lockdown", actually until tomorrow non are but that's a different point entirely.

Our entire country has to take responsibility for how we deal with this, how we have dealt with this and how we go forward. Were left with a government who are corrupt, negligent and moronic, they're striping the nation's best assets to line their own pockets and we're the ones who put them there. As a country we were so divided before the election that the whole thing came down to leave or remain so we ended up with the Brexit PM and his oven ready deal that turned to sh!te. There has to be a better way for all of us out there somewhere.

But most importantly we seem to be forgetting our empathy, tolerance and care for our fellow man, things often espoused as great British virtues. So in that vain, Gary are you alright mate? You seem like your having a bit of a rough time of it lately.

TLDR: 1 dead person bad, lots of dead persons also bad, let's try to figure out how to keep people less deaded while we figure out a plan. The Torries have handled this badly but everyone else probably would've as well. This isn't ending any time soon so let's actually improve our country, society and the worldld in general. Also f0ck the Torries, labour and the system in general, there has to be a better way so let's all get together and find it while being excellent to eachother.