Covid 19 and non-tax payers

[Treadtrader]

It’s an interesting thread Steve started.
Let’s be honest, if the builder who quoted £3000 for the extension said “only £2500 for cash” how many of us would jump at the chance of saving £500 to spend on our bikes and trips?
Maybe the cashless society would be more honest, but every time we use a card someone? Knows what we’re buying and for how much.
Just My musings.

[Jak*]

Those who have investments in off shore tax havens cost the country far more than all the dodgy builders etc, yet millions of people voted for their ‘rights’ to retain these.
Cheers

[lancashirelad]

When I was joinering I did a few "foreigners" for cash BUT the difference back then was I worked 40hrs a week paying tax on my pay & a few foriegners at night or weekends, but now people make a career out of not paying tax, SOME taxi drivers only declare their earnings to be just under what you can earn & still get benefits, that's why you've to wait behind them in garages while they pay in pound coins for fuel so it's untraceable how much fuel they've used, ask em for a receipt & see what you get a scribbled note.

I stress some not all!!!

[Andi_Archer]

Whilst I would not like to see anybody suffer from this period of depression however people earn money on the blackmarket be it through drugs or working for cash in hand, asking the government i.e. in effect the taxpayer to bail them out is it not just encouraging them to continue to do the same?

[daveuprite]

, asking the government i.e. in effect the taxpayer to bail them out is it not just encouraging them to continue to do the same?

What, rather like the bankers in 2008 ?

[Andi_Archer]

Equating one wrong with another doesn’t somehow magically make it any better.I could justify any theft by saying there are multiple burglary’s elsewhere in the same fashion.

[Flipflop]

, asking the government i.e. in effect the taxpayer to bail them out is it not just encouraging them to continue to do the same?

What, rather like the bankers in 2008 ?

More blame game perpetuated by people who profit from such stuff.
The banking crises was created by a combination of bankers greed, people wanting more than they could afford and very very poor mathematics.
The government’s of the world didn’t bale out the banks they saved us, lucky enough to live in the 1st world, from going back to the life style our grandparents had - my paternal grandfather was born in the work house and, when I was a kid, we would visit my maternal grandparents who had no running water so I’m out
No one I know was negatively affected by quantitive easing, in fact everyone I know has financially gained since then. I’m sure there may be some worse off but the possibility to improve your lot is still there, and this is due to the ability to borrow money from banks - rather than the Kray twins.

As far as cash in the building trade goes, it’s just not worth it. If you get investigated as a couple of my friends have (it’s a name out of the bag scenario) they look into everything you do and own - check how you pay for shopping, holidays, check all your transport etc..etc..etc... any anomaly’s and your bill will be way higher than the extra money you earned.

The thing about career criminals is that they’re prepared or used to doing porridge so they can just sit in there rooms and wait it out, happy in the knowledge that, once this is over, a lot of people will be out

My, non expert, advice to your friend would be to contact the tax office after Coronavirus is all over, explain his situation and ask for a deal. I did this many years ago: after I came back from travelling in my 20s I worked for cash for a while but decided I needed to get back into the system. They gave me an emergency tax number for a year or so and a bill for NI which I also payed over a year or so. They are very happy to welcome back tax payers into the system and therefore very helpful well at least they were in the 80s - circumstances may be similar now with high unemployment after Coronavirus.
Best wishes to him

[daveuprite]

Equating one wrong with another doesn’t somehow magically make it any better.I could justify any theft by saying there are multiple burglary’s elsewhere in the same fashion.

Yes, very fair point, and I agree really. But the comparison is kind of irresistible and somewhat inevitable, given the vast release of public money that saved banking corporations in 2008/09 and the vast release of public money that's happening now to save lives. But true, two wrongs don't make a right.

[daveuprite]

, asking the government i.e. in effect the taxpayer to bail them out is it not just encouraging them to continue to do the same?

What, rather like the bankers in 2008 ?

More blame game perpetuated by people who profit from such stuff.
The banking crises was created by a combination of bankers greed, people wanting more than they could afford and very very poor mathematics.
The government’s of the world didn’t bale out the banks they saved us, lucky enough to live in the 1st world, from going back to the life style our grandparents had - my paternal grandfather was born in the work house and, when I was a kid, we would visit my maternal grandparents who had no running water so I’m out
No one I know was negatively affected by quantitive easing, in fact everyone I know has financially gained since then. I’m sure there may be some worse off but the possibility to improve your lot is still there, and this is due to the ability to borrow money from banks - rather than the Kray twins.

As far as cash in the building trade goes, it’s just not worth it. If you get investigated as a couple of my friends have (it’s a name out of the bag scenario) they look into everything you do and own - check how you pay for shopping, holidays, check all your transport etc..etc..etc... any anomaly’s and your bill will be way higher than the extra money you earned.

The thing about career criminals is that they’re prepared or used to doing porridge so they can just sit in there rooms and wait it out, happy in the knowledge that, once this is over, a lot of people will be out

My, non expert, advice to your friend would be to contact the tax office after Coronavirus is all over, explain his situation and ask for a deal. I did this many years ago: after I came back from travelling in my 20s I worked for cash for a while but decided I needed to get back into the system. They gave me an emergency tax number for a year or so and a bill for NI which I also payed over a year or so. They are very happy to welcome back tax payers into the system and therefore very helpful well at least they were in the 80s - circumstances may be similar now with high unemployment after Coronavirus.
Best wishes to him

Firstly, thanks for that advice to Graham, which I'll relay to him. It would definitely be best for him to get back in the system, and his is a spent conviction now, so he really ought to regularise his affair (as HMRC would call it). But he's understandably nervous of being fined and/or asked for a large back-tax payment.

As to 'quantitative easing' - well that is a fiscal euphemism for the mass transfer of public funds into the private sector - which in the case of the banking sector was deemed too big to allow it to fail. Given that most public funding is gleaned from lower and middle class tax-payers, it was also a huge gift from poorer contributors to the richest corporations, executives and share-holders, many of whom took it as bonuses, dividends and share buy-backs. The public realm, the welfare state and public services were starved for 12 years to save the banks. Very little has been learnt from 2008, and the banks are mostly still deemed too big to fail and would still be bailed out today in the same circumstances. Which is why I replied that they have no disincentive or discouragement from making exactly the same reckless mistakes all over again. The whole system needed to be radically restructured to prevent a repetition, but instead bankers were basically rewarded for their failure. There are plenty of alternatives to an unwieldy banking sector gambling with our savings, pensions etc, and certainly not loan sharks or kray twins. For instance, locally run small-scale credit unions which invest in proper businesses, not exchange-rate speculation and margin calls.

It's an interesting subject, sure, but all a little bit academic in the current circumstances, because the next world recession that was brewing and due fairly soon anyway has just been brought forward to now by Covid.

[garyboy]

Surely, people who condone criminal activity, and so by encourage others to do so, are engaging in criminal activity themselves,??

Not sure how the government views this, but they are letting thousands of criminals out of prison now, and it has long been police practice to victimise the real victim in many situations.

Sounds like another conspiracy theory is on order?

Especially when site moderators seem to agree with people not living in our country, .. making these blood sucker 'friends ' out to some kind of national heroes