EU. In or out?

[qcnr]

And the great British public want people like Danliar Koztwitsky to lead them out of Europe...

[Brenhden]

A colleague of mine posted a tweet from an MEP about how the EU has big import tariffs on NZ Lamb and how it will be much cheaper to import lamb when we leave the EU. Interested I checked up on import duties in the EU and found that it was a lie (the EU has a duty free quota so large that NZ could never exceed it). I commented that the guy was a liar and that it was important to check 'facts' before sharing them. His response was that leave supported have to lie to compete with remain supporters. I was gobsmacked.

I don't want this to be country where truth is not important. I will not sink to the level of liars whoever they are. That is not the values of this proud country.

[OB1]

A colleague of mine posted a tweet from an MEP about how the EU has big import tariffs on NZ Lamb and how it will be much cheaper to import lamb when we leave the EU. Interested I checked up on import duties in the EU and found that it was a lie (the EU has a duty free quota so large that NZ could never exceed it). I commented that the guy was a liar and that it was important to check 'facts' before sharing them. His response was that leave supported have to lie to compete with remain supporters. I was gobsmacked.

I don't want this to be country where truth is not important. I will not sink to the level of liars whoever they are. That is not the values of this proud country.

Yeah... I had a similar conversation on here (might even have been in this thread) with someone who insisted that the EU was responsible for the re-gassing of his car's air conditioning going up from £30-odd to over £300. His source was his mechanic. I did some digging and found his statements to be untrue and gave a couple of reliable sources that disproved his original claim. His answer was something along the lines of "alternative facts" and he was still trotting out the same lie a year or so later. Some people just want to believe.

[simonw]

What are you on about, Brenhden and OB1, of course it doesn't matter if you tell the truth or not.

See my post from the 18th Jan:

Post-referendum, David Davis said: “What is important is not what is said. It’s whether it’s challenged, in the first instance, and then the British public can make a judgment." (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 44611.html). In other words, it doesn't matter (to David Davis) whether politicians tell the truth or not. So there you have it - it's completely ok to lie about anything, even big, important things.

(Further excerpt:

Untruths and hyperbole deployed by politicians during the EU referendum campaign were not important and did not swing the result of the vote, the Brexit Secretary has said. David Davis said claims made by both sides could not be “repeated on oath” but that the issue had “inspired such passions” that the campaign could not have been conducted in any other way.

His comments come after controversy about a now-disowned claim by Vote Leave that the EU received £350m each week from the UK taxpayer and that this could be spent on the NHS after Brexit. Asked whether he agreed there were “untruths” on both sides of the debate Mr Davis said he agreed there had been “a lot of hyperbole”.

But he said it was “probably not” possible for the campaign to have been conducted more truthfully. “It’s such a big issue and it inspired such passions,” the Secretary of State told the fringe event at the Conservatives’ Birmingham conference on Tuesday.)

And of course the media have been making stuff up for years. I well remember seeing this first hand with a story which the despicable Daily Mail ran about a situation which I had intimate knowledge of. Their reporting was simply scandelous, containing several significant material innacuracies and at least one complete fabrication. Of course the truth about the situation wouldn't have sold nearly as many copies.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

The truth of the matter is we can all find things we don't like about our lives, which may or may not be attributable to the EU.

But...even out of the EU, the EU is going to have huge impacts on our lives here in the UK. But if we are no longer citizens of the EU, we can have no impact on the process.

An example...you may recall some time ago there was a campaign by MAG about forthcoming EU legislation regarding compulsory ABS and other stuff on bikes.

I wrote to my MEP and got the then-chaiman of the TRF to also make a submission (written by me) under that organisation's name.

Single-seat road-legal enduro bikes were made exempt from the ABS rules...and quite a few others as well. No doubt the views I made known were taken into consideration...along with those of others.

With the UK outside the EU...my views would not even have registered. But you can bet the legislation will still apply.

Still blue passports printed in France...and perhaps some nice food ration books with 'Keep Calm and Carry On' printed on the covers... will more than make up for all of that, once we have completed 'the easiest deal in history'

[Scott_rider]

Single-seat road-legal enduro bikes were made exempt from the ABS rules...and quite a few others as well. No doubt the views I made known were taken into consideration...along with those of others.

With the UK outside the EU...my views would not even have registered. But you can bet the legislation will still apply.

Genuine question - if we were outside of the EU how would the legislation still affect us? We could make our own rules, couldn't we? I know we'd inherit all the EU legislation by default but we'd soon change that and repeal most of it and set our own laws....wouldn't we?

[Brenhden]

Single-seat road-legal enduro bikes were made exempt from the ABS rules...and quite a few others as well. No doubt the views I made known were taken into consideration...along with those of others.

With the UK outside the EU...my views would not even have registered. But you can bet the legislation will still apply.

Genuine question - if we were outside of the EU how would the legislation still affect us? We could make our own rules, couldn't we? I know we'd inherit all the EU legislation by default but we'd soon change that and repeal most of it and set our own laws....wouldn't we?

It's a good point, if we set our own laws we can change things. It's very unlikely we would change anything to make them less environmentally friendly or lass safe however.

[daveuprite]

Single-seat road-legal enduro bikes were made exempt from the ABS rules...and quite a few others as well. No doubt the views I made known were taken into consideration...along with those of others.

With the UK outside the EU...my views would not even have registered. But you can bet the legislation will still apply.

Genuine question - if we were outside of the EU how would the legislation still affect us? We could make our own rules, couldn't we? I know we'd inherit all the EU legislation by default but we'd soon change that and repeal most of it and set our own laws....wouldn't we?

It's a good point, if we set our own laws we can change things. It's very unlikely we would change anything to make them less environmentally friendly or lass safe however.

Beg to differ, Bren. If there's a no deal brexit then all options are open. All the expert thinking is that the economy will suffer, the tax-take will suffer and there will be much less money available generally for public services etc. There will then be a rather desperate clamber to do any kind of trade deal with non-EU countries. Obviously the single biggest deal the UK would likely pursue would be with the USA. But the UK's desperate circumstances would basically make it a bit of a fire sale, with the UK as supplicant. Which would mean that the price of any kind of deal, especially a deal with the Trump regime, would be a wholesale abandonment of high environmental standards, HS, and anything else that a far less socially, morally and environmentally aware partner would demand.

[Brenhden]

Single-seat road-legal enduro bikes were made exempt from the ABS rules...and quite a few others as well. No doubt the views I made known were taken into consideration...along with those of others.

With the UK outside the EU...my views would not even have registered. But you can bet the legislation will still apply.

Genuine question - if we were outside of the EU how would the legislation still affect us? We could make our own rules, couldn't we? I know we'd inherit all the EU legislation by default but we'd soon change that and repeal most of it and set our own laws....wouldn't we?

It's a good point, if we set our own laws we can change things. It's very unlikely we would change anything to make them less environmentally friendly or lass safe however.

Beg to differ, Bren. If there's a no deal brexit then all options are open. All the expert thinking is that the economy will suffer, the tax-take will suffer and there will be much less money available generally for public services etc. There will then be a rather desperate clamber to do any kind of trade deal with non-EU countries. Obviously the single biggest deal the UK would likely pursue would be with the USA. But the UK's desperate circumstances would basically make it a bit of a fire sale, with the UK as supplicant. Which would mean that the price of any kind of deal, especially a deal with the Trump regime, would be a wholesale abandonment of high environmental standards, HS, and anything else that a far less socially, morally and environmentally aware partner would demand.

My tiny glimmer of optimism for the future of our country is slowly being extinguished. I hope you are not right. This is the worst possible time to want to be closer to America. The US doesn't care about anything but itself right now, we might as share a bigmac with a lion.

[simonw]

<snip> we might as [well] share a bigmac with a lion.