Speeding in Switzerland? £3200 Fine

[simonw]

What is there to square up, Simon ?

I understand he cocked up and that there are plenty of other similar examples, and I completely agree that there's no linear, direct causal link between speed and accidents and that fast and totally reckless are not the same. It's just that at warp speed the margin for error becomes more of a slither and the risk (which of course is comprised of two elements - likelihood and consequence) becomes much greater.

But that video doesn't make the argument for higher speeding fines, lower speed limits or more speed cameras. It makes the argument for better training, more experience, less show-boating and, I would say, more track time learning how to corner properly. You can ride pretty fast and pretty safe at the same time, if you know what you're doing.

I think there should be better education and training of all road users. Fines, cameras and limits are simplistic blunt instruments which address the symptoms but often not the cause.

[OB1]

Bloody PC snowflakes and namby-pamby ism

So, sticking to the rules for the greater good gets your derision?

Every day I see all kinds of road users doing things that they shouldn't, from using mobile phones, cutting corners to jumping red lights and speeding. Out of all these, none will be remembered, but the idiot that I saw at lunch riding through a residential area at above 40 mph on an R1 with a race can will and we will all get tarred with the same brush. So some dick vlogger with a YouTube channel gets a big fine for doing nearly double the speed limit: good. If that makes me a PC snowflake with namby-pamby tendencies, then so be it.

It is just two years ago that my cousin's 16 year old daughter and her friend were, whilst out for a training run, mown down by a young lad in a car who was speeding whilst being distracted by his phone. I do not apologise for being a snowflake.

[daveuprite]

Agree with you OB1. There's no need to fling around 'snowflake' or 'namby pamby'. It's perfectly legitimate to argue that people should stick to speed limits and it's understandable when those who have experience of bad accidents get irate. 'Political correctness' is also being misused here, as usual these days.

I'm personally a bit nostalgic about the days when I rode sportsbikes hard and fast around Europe, virtually without punishment. Not because I can defend it in any way. It was pretty irresponsible (although I never used to speed in built up areas, near schools or other places where it would obviously be dangerous). I think I risked my own skin far more than others, but I admit that if the circumstances were right (wrong) I suppose I could have taken someone else with me - which is a terrible thought. So I wouldn't really argue for a return to free-for-all motoring - there's too many vehicles out there now for that - but I do feel that we are in danger of trying too hard to eliminate all risk and excitement from driving/riding. I'm also happy for my taxes to go towards scooping up failed parachute jumps, recovering lost climbers and rehabilitating paralysed pot-holers. It's the price we should all pay for keeping variety in our lives, even if we don't personally want to take part. We mustn't go too far down the road of banning dangerous activities because seeking excitement is an important part of living a fulfilling life.

[johnnyboxer]

I'm personally a bit nostalgic about the days when I rode sportsbikes hard and fast around Europe, virtually without punishment. Not because I can defend it in any way. It was pretty irresponsible (although I never used to speed in built up areas, near schools or other places where it would obviously be dangerous). I think I risked my own skin far more than others, but I admit that if the circumstances were right (wrong) I suppose I could have taken someone else with me - which is a terrible thought. So I wouldn't really argue for a return to free-for-all motoring - there's too many vehicles out there now for that - but I do feel that we are in danger of trying too hard to eliminate all risk and excitement from driving/riding. I'm also happy for my taxes to go towards scooping up failed parachute jumps, recovering lost climbers and rehabilitating paralysed pot-holers. It's the price we should all pay for keeping variety in our lives, even if we don't personally want to take part. We mustn't go too far down the road of banning dangerous activities because seeking excitement is an important part of living a fulfilling life.

This was my point OB1, life is becoming too binary, too sanitised, boring and dull

No razzing allowed (on the open road, not towns..........of course)

[OB1]

I'm personally a bit nostalgic about the days when I rode sportsbikes hard and fast around Europe, virtually without punishment. Not because I can defend it in any way. It was pretty irresponsible (although I never used to speed in built up areas, near schools or other places where it would obviously be dangerous). I think I risked my own skin far more than others, but I admit that if the circumstances were right (wrong) I suppose I could have taken someone else with me - which is a terrible thought. So I wouldn't really argue for a return to free-for-all motoring - there's too many vehicles out there now for that - but I do feel that we are in danger of trying too hard to eliminate all risk and excitement from driving/riding. I'm also happy for my taxes to go towards scooping up failed parachute jumps, recovering lost climbers and rehabilitating paralysed pot-holers. It's the price we should all pay for keeping variety in our lives, even if we don't personally want to take part. We mustn't go too far down the road of banning dangerous activities because seeking excitement is an important part of living a fulfilling life.

This was my point OB1, life is becoming too binary, too sanitised, boring and dull

No razzing allowed (on the open road, not towns..........of course)

And this was my point: the limit in the area where those guys were caught speeding was there for a reason.

I will admit to doing 165 on a T595 Daytona but it was on a German autobahn which was legal. I also did the same speed on the same bike on the M180 near Scunthorpe one evening when there was nothing else around. However, if there is a lower limit (i.e. not the national speed limit), I will stick to it because it is there for a reason.

[RandG]

Personally I think it's a bit sad. Back in the 90s and early 2000s I was one of those who used to treat European roads as a huge playground. A group of us would take our GSXRs. R1s, Fireblades, Ducatis etc and burn up French/Spanish/Swiss/German/Italian roads like a racetrack. We blasted our way to MotoGP races, the Bol D'Or, the Nurburgring and any other excuse / destination to go off for a fortnight of scratching. Hundreds of thousands of others did too. Any decently surfaced mountain road, gorge or set of sweepers was just an opportunity to destroy knee-sliders and test our bikes almost to the limit.

Some of us, including me, spent our weekends racing or track-daying back in the UK. We were pretty good sports bike riders with experience and high-speed skills. Obviously none of that could prevent a huge road accident if the unexpected came along. We knew that perfectly well and we did our best to anticipate it, but ultimately we accepted that what we were doing was dangerous but also very exciting and life-affirming. Many a night's drinking was spent recalling a day of brilliant riding, beautiful views and close-scrapes. We also lost a friend or two to biking over the years. But we knew the risks.

Nowadays this behaviour is increasingly regarded as unacceptable, as can be seen in some of the comments above. Fair enough. From my own point of view, I have basically stopped road-riding because the paranoia of being speed-trapped ruins the ride. For me now, it's either the track or off-roading only. The road is a hostile place where sports-biking is vilified and punished, with the collaboration of the 'sensible' biking community, all keen to parade their Advanced Rider certificates and Rospa training.

But at least I have some great memories of crazy days carving up mountain roads before the crack-down began. Nothing can take that away.

Shaky Byrne used to head over there and make vids with Performance Bikes mag with a crowd of others, those were mental vids but just couldn't see how anyone could get away with it nowadays.

As for the fine, holy fuck ! I've went those kinda speeds through Switzerland myself a few times and never for a second did I think that kind of punishment would come my way. I've also ridden slower than those speeds but still still above the limit and never gave it a second thought, that vid is a real eye opener.

[RandG]

JB is this posted on UKGSer ?? If so, fire me up a link please.

[RandG]

Found it.

[daveuprite]

Shaky Byrne used to head over there and make vids with Performance Bikes mag with a crowd of others, those were mental vids but just couldn't see how anyone could get away with it nowadays.

Yeah, great days. I was a big PB fan, and I raced against Ronnie Smith and Spyke Edwards in the KRC series. Those guys, with Gus Scott and others, built a brilliant magazine that told it how it was and didn't suck up to manufacturers. They clearly had a lot of fun on their test runs to France/Spain etc. Days that are unlikely to be repeated now.

For a flavour, watch this:

[media] [/media]

RIP Ronnie & Gus.

[RandG]

Ronnie Smith and Gus Scott, those were the days. Remember front page of PB was Ronnie Smith wheelying a wing, also did a trackday with Gus when he did the teaching at Croft, great guy.

Also the irony of Ronnie Smith getting killed on a scoot after all the madness was staggering, Gus's death was an absolute tragedy in the manner it happened also.