Who earns 80 grand?

[ollydog]

Hi,please do not misunderstand me I am not having a go at those on this forum or elsewhere who have triumphed over adversity. I believe from what they have posted on other threads that there are many contributors on here who have been dealt some pretty tough hands and through hard work have achieved a great deal.

You'll never meet a tough person with an easy past.

i like that quote ralph, one of yours or else where, would look good on a t shirt

steve

[cadoganpier]

Hi,please do not misunderstand me I am not having a go at those on this forum or elsewhere who have triumphed over adversity. I believe from what they have posted on other threads that there are many contributors on here who have been dealt some pretty tough hands and through hard work have achieved a great deal.

You'll never meet a tough person with an easy past.

i like that quote ralph, one of yours or else where, would look good on a t shirt

steve

What total bollocks, I've met lots of tough(by tough I am assuming you mean mental toughness) people who haven't been made tough through some sort of adversity or problem in their past. Unless your definition of tough is someone who has struggled against adversity and succeeded in which case a tough person couldn't be anything else..........

[-Ralph-]

Hi,please do not misunderstand me I am not having a go at those on this forum or elsewhere who have triumphed over adversity. I believe from what they have posted on other threads that there are many contributors on here who have been dealt some pretty tough hands and through hard work have achieved a great deal.

You'll never meet a tough person with an easy past.

i like that quote ralph, one of yours or else where, would look good on a t shirt

steve

What total bollocks, I've met lots of tough(by tough I am assuming you mean mental toughness) people who haven't been made tough through some sort of adversity or problem in their past. Unless your definition of tough is someone who has struggled against adversity and succeeded in which case a tough person couldn't be anything else..........

You didn't ask what my definition of tough was before saying it was bollocks, and in doing so you've just totally contradicted yourself and proved that the saying is spot on.

[Jak*]

One of the things I love about this forum is the range of views and the intelligent comments from the vast majority of users. This thread seems to have veered off from the original topic. What is obvious is that everyone's views are coloured by their life experiences and situation. I have had a variety of jobs, including five years in the army, for the last fifteen years I have taught teenagers who have been excluded from mainstreams schools. This has changed my perception of the benefit system. I do get frustrated with those who abuse it,although the cost to the country of the whole benefit system is vastly lower than the cost to the country of the tax cheats. The vast majority of the young people I teach come from economically deprived backgrounds, many have learning needs, the vast majority have suffered abuse either emotional, physical, sexual or neglect. The case histories that I read leave me close to tears particularly when you know the children involved, on some home visits I have nearly thrown up,due to the conditions these children live in. To say that these children have an equal life chance is just not true.
It is also important to remember that the average age on this forum is probably over forty, the world we grew up in is very different from that of today. I grant you that for most people life in many ways is much easier than it used to be but I would contend that maybe because of that we are depriving our children of some of the important elements of most of our upbringings. One of these is that we do not develop resilience or 'toughness' in the way we used to. Personally I believe that to ride a bike, particular in the winter in this country you need resilience, it is what keeps you going when you are cold and wet, it is what enables you to drag the bike out on a freezing winter's morning or to pick it up,when you have dropped it off. The forces develop resilience. Once halfway up a hill in the Brecons I'm the pouring rain with full kit on a mate asked why are we doing this sarge. He replied it was character building, a phrase I soon learnt meant anything cold wet and potentially dangerous.
I therefore believe that the majority of contributors to this forum have above average resilience.
So in answer to Spud's question. Firstly if I had all the answers I might be a lot closer to,earning that eighty grand. I would introduce a National Service, possibly in the form of a longer National Citizenship,Sevice as an alternative to the military. I would remind people that the benefits system is a safety net for those who need it and repair the holes in the net that have been made by the cuts in the last seven years.( When you question the costs of benefits you have to look at the cost of the alternatives). I would invest more money in nursery, infant and junior school education and I would allow children to spend more time playing at a younger age. I would reintroduce a more balanced and practical secondary curriculum. I would link MPs pay to that of other public sector workers and get rid of percentile pay rises. E.g. If you think a nurse needs an extra five hundred quid a year to cope with rises in the cost of living that is what an MP gets. I would actively seek out and prosecute tax fraudsters. I would increase income tax by one percent for everyone.
That might do for starters.
On a brighter note I just read that someone knocked the wing mirror of the UKIP bus. I hope it was the right one. :laugh:
Cheers Jak

[Philiptigerrice]

Reintroduce National Service!!
For what?? :silly:
I hate this old myth that a bit of 'Square Bashing' would sort out the yoof of Today.
Utter Nonsense.
What the hell would the Army do with a quarter of a million bored teenagers? There no empire to send them too - perhaps we could send them on walking holidays, or maybe occupy Scotland so the blighters can't get away eh?! Perhaps we could have a few small wars old chap... keep the buggers busy what what!

[Jak*]

Although I would in many ways agree with you about national service in the form that it was in the fifties there are many good things about the forces and the way that they develop young peoples' social and life skills.
I think you may have missed the bit about the National Citizenship Service http://www.ncsyes.co.uk . This is a voluntary programme for sixteen year olds in between GCSEs and college or work. It develops teamwork skills and gets young people working on projects to benefit their communities. Most of the teenagers who I know who have been on it found it really useful and some life changing. One of Cameron's better ideas. Unfortunately the take up amongst the disaffected youth is much lower than it is for those from more affluent backgrounds. Hence why I would make it, or something similar, compulsory.
Cheers Jak

[SteveR]

A great thread, thoughtful and for me, thought provoking.

[-Ralph-]

What total bollocks

Utter Nonsense

For all our age and wisdom on this forum what we don't seem to be good at is respecting other peoples opinions.

[-Ralph-]

The vast majority of the young people I teach come from economically deprived backgrounds, many have learning needs, the vast majority have suffered abuse either emotional, physical, sexual or neglect. The case histories that I read leave me close to tears particularly when you know the children involved, on some home visits I have nearly thrown up,due to the conditions these children live in. To say that these children have an equal life chance is just not true

Absolutely correct, but it's attitude and education that created that environment, not money.

Having that attitude and education can only lead to economic depravity, so it's a vicious circle. A person who lives by those values will never be rich. So that environment and economic depravity go hand in hand.

But economic depravity does not generate the poor attitude and education, you can be the poorest man in the world and still teach your kids not to inflict emotional, physical, sexual
abuse or neglect.

Respect, right from wrong, those things are about who you are, not what you have.

[nickoff]

Only just seen this thread. Been up in Scotland for the past week doing the NC500, in a campervan I hasten to add. £80,000 a year? I ain't taking a cut in my government pension for anyone.
Nick.