EU. In or out?

[Redmurty]

sitting on the fence as we do we have the worst of both worlds, we are not in a strong enough position to make changes that are meaningful and we are not "OUT" enough to be able to make meaningful changes to our laws either.

They will miss our money far more than we will miss them.

Well said Alun by the way, my point exactly

cheers Spud

[-Ralph-]

You understand that there is an elected European Parliament right?

Not representing Britain there isn't, we make up less than 10% of that parliament (73 out of 751 MEP's), but we are the one of the biggest contributors financially.

The unelected European Commission decides upon the need for legislation, drafts it, then passes it to the EU Parliament for approval, an approval we don't have enough power to influence. There is no elected government identifying a need for and asking for new legislation.

That's why no-one turns out for MEP elections, it doesn't matter who we have in there, they have no voting power.

Anyone who uses the elected representative argument is the one who doesn't understand how it works.

Sounds a lot like the SNP's position as well regarding Westminster (where they have significantly more influence vs population size).

I agree, its not ideal. I am keen to listen to as much information (re FACTS and not sound bites) before I finally decide. I should probably change my position to "In but open to being persuaded"

Exactly, which is why Craigrevo's point about Scotland wanting independance and wanting to stay in the EU at the same time is such a poinient one, and the faceplant in his avatar matches the post perfectly.

[nethen1]

Nicked from another site.....

“What did the EEC/EU ever do for us?

In the week when the UK's five extremist right-wing media billionaires won their battle to waste our time, money and political capital on a EU referendum, I thought it a good time to post the great letter by Simon Sweeney in the Guardian, which he kindly allowed me to reproduce in my book, "The Prostitute State - How Britain's Democracy has Been Bought":

"What did the EU ever do for us?
Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Simon Sweeney,

Lecturer in international political economy, University of York"

Please share - the anti-EU campaign will have the full force of Murdoch's and the other 4 extremist right-wing media billionaires papers whose agenda is to destroy all our human rights.

As I wrote in The Prostitute State, over 80% of UK papers are owned by five extremist right wing media billionaires: Rupert Murdoch, (Sun/Times), Barclay Brothers (Telegraph), Richard Desmond (Express) and Lord Rothermere (Daily Mail).

Murdoch is Australian living in New York, Rothermere lives in France, the Barclay Brothers in the tax havens of Monaco and Guernsey. All of them use tax haven entities to avoid UK taxes.

So key question is in light of the above list, why have these billionaires for decades tried to destroy the EU's democratic institutions?

Together we can take him/them on and beat him/them.

peace love respect
Donnachadh x
www.theprostitutestate.co.uk

[jonny955]

Nicked from another site.....

“So key question is in light of the above list, why have these billionaires for decades tried to destroy the EU's democratic institutions?

:dry:

Jon

[Scott_rider]

Nicked from another site.....

“What did the EEC/EU ever do for us?



Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Simon Sweeney,

Lecturer in international political economy, University of York"

Please share - the anti-EU campaign will have the full force of Murdoch's and the other 4 extremist right-wing media billionaires papers whose agenda is to destroy all our human rights.

That's typical intellectual poppycock, in my view.
Our net contribution is closer to 10 Billion than 7 billion.
A lot of those things in his list would have happened anyway.
So it still costs us net £10 billion a year...which is £192 million a week...and he thinks that's good value? :blink:

[catcitrus]

Agree on the poppycock--it all assumes that we would otherwise be backward, lacklustre, and an uncaring nation where nothing "environmental" would get done WITHOUT the EU !! I for one am prepared to fight for my national identity and independence and make a go of it--people seem to forget that we are still an Island ! What is the alternative--be even more on the "fringe" courtesy of Camaloon and not able to do anything about the introverted ,unelected and self serving Brussels machine.
ps don't bring the old EEC into it--that worked, and was simply a trade organisation--and BEFORE THE EURO club etc

[Mac 60]

A lot of arguments here for staying in the EU based on statistics and such but all i know is what i can see with my own eyes in my home town. Absolute urban decay. Most shops are boarded up, the only hospital gone, not enough houseing for the growing population, only one factory where there once was dozens, no hope for younsters finding work, small business going under every day. Most of the pubs gone. People depending on welfare handouts, and foodbanks ! CHRIST its not the 1940s. Now i know this isent all the falt of the EU but i havent seen a shred of evidence of any EU help. Iam fairly well travelled in western Europe and ive yet to come across a town there in such a state as here and some of those countrys are supposed to be bankrupt ?

[threepot]

Some have done very nicely from it.. :whistle:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... train.html

[misterlaffer]

Some have done very nicely from it.. :whistle:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... train.html

An ex Labour leader

Power to the People eh?

[Mawnanian]

Some have done very nicely from it.. :whistle:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... train.html

2009, couldn't you find anything a bit more up to date?