EU. In or out?

[pinball1008]

AndyB said "I suspect we'll also see Boris Johnson aligning himself with the out camp in the hope that a UK exit will mean Cameron having to stand down leaving the position open for him to contest."

Which is really the agenda for some of the OUT MP's. Their rhetoric on leaving the EU will actually be about ensuring a leadership contest. As per normal, there will only be half truths about what is best for the UK so that these individuals can pursue their own agendas.

[scutty]

If only people were so enthused when it came to MEP elections as they are for the referendum we might not have such a bunch of malignant scroungers representing us in the European Parliment.

What was the turnout for the last MEP election? 35%

[Loggy]

I like Boris Johnson, but he's lost his mind on some things that make me feel he's not on the same planet!

He's got a public consultation going because he wants clear see through panels fitted to passenger doors on HGV's to help prevent cyclists getting killed. This despite the fact they have to be fitted with three mirrors that allow downward and side visibility, proximity sensors with an audible warning/visual warning in the cab, and a WARNING - TRUCK TURNING LEFT audible warning coming from a loud speaker on the outside of the truck when the left indicator is applied. Doesn't matter how many warnings you put on a vehicle, some cyclists will still ignore them. Some people really do NEED to take responsibility for their own actions!!!!

I mention this because if he's thinking of doing crazy stuff like this then god help us if he becomes PM!!!

[AustinW]

a thought England votes out< Scotland votes in to trigger a new referendum :whistle: :laugh:

cheers Spud

Scotland voted to remain in the UK and its the UK that is voting whether to stay in the EU or not. Regardless of the outcome its how the UK as a whole votes that counts. To avoid resentment rising in Scotland or anywhere else I hope they don't count votes by country/region/council/constituency or anything else as that will just stoke discontent and resentment. it has to be and only be a UK wide outcome.

I am still undecided as we definitely don't have enough information about what getting out really means beyond the hype and scare tactics. My major thought is how it would look to the likes of ISIS, Russia, and China - a sign of weakness in the competition that could and probably would be seen as a sign of weakness.

what has staying in the EU got to do with safety, we are in NATO plus how many of the EU countries back all the resolutions ?

You will never have "all" the information about what life would be like outside the EU as how can anyone tell us that but we did have an Empire before and we have the commonwealth plus we then can decide to deal with other countries without having restrictions placed on us by the EU

cheers Spud

I didn't mean military action, I meant economically, culturally, politically. On these respects The Eu will be weaker without the UK and the UK weaker without the eu. That weakness can and will be exploited as well as sowing the seed of discontent in existing and prospective eu members. Russia did not want Ukraine to join the eu (amongst other things) and had to invade to get that outcome. What a great result for Russia if it can start persuading former eastern bloc countries to follow the uk's lead. Russia, China, ISIS and no doubt others have huge vested interest in the eu breaking up, becoming disunited and a weaker power on the world stage.

And, yes we will never have all the facts but so far I haven't seen much other than hype and scare about leaving with an unwarranted focus on migration - migrants will still want to come here, perhaps more so if we leave the eu.

[CRAIGREVO]

This vote is so important to the future of not only my generation but for my grandchildren and their children as well that there's no way I'm going to make a final decision yet though if the referendum was tomorrow I'd vote to stay in.

The thing that's swaying me at the moment is having UKIP supporters smiling rather than crying and saying the media had it in for them, it was a hatchet job, postal votes did for them and any other excuse apart from admitting their leader is a clown

:blink: :laugh:

Can you see the irony in what you typed.

[Loggy]

a thought England votes out< Scotland votes in to trigger a new referendum :whistle: :laugh:

cheers Spud

Scotland voted to remain in the UK and its the UK that is voting whether to stay in the EU or not. Regardless of the outcome its how the UK as a whole votes that counts. To avoid resentment rising in Scotland or anywhere else I hope they don't count votes by country/region/council/constituency or anything else as that will just stoke discontent and resentment. it has to be and only be a UK wide outcome.

I am still undecided as we definitely don't have enough information about what getting out really means beyond the hype and scare tactics. My major thought is how it would look to the likes of ISIS, Russia, and China - a sign of weakness in the competition that could and probably would be seen as a sign of weakness.

what has staying in the EU got to do with safety, we are in NATO plus how many of the EU countries back all the resolutions ?

You will never have "all" the information about what life would be like outside the EU as how can anyone tell us that but we did have an Empire before and we have the commonwealth plus we then can decide to deal with other countries without having restrictions placed on us by the EU

cheers Spud

And, yes we will never have all the facts but so far I haven't seen much other than hype and scare about leaving with an unwarranted focus on migration - migrants will still want to come here, perhaps more so if we leave the eu.

That "hype and scare" works both ways.

You've just said you've not "seen much other than hype and scare about leaving" and then close the sentence with "migrants will still want to come here, perhaps more so if we leave the EU"

Isn't that scaremongering an argument to stay in?

[AndyB]

This vote is so important to the future of not only my generation but for my grandchildren and their children as well that there's no way I'm going to make a final decision yet though if the referendum was tomorrow I'd vote to stay in.

The thing that's swaying me at the moment is having UKIP supporters smiling rather than crying and saying the media had it in for them, it was a hatchet job, postal votes did for them and any other excuse apart from admitting their leader is a clown

:blink: :laugh:

Can you see the irony in what you typed.

Absolutely which is why I'm not making my mind up yet

Like a couple of others here I'll be basing my decision on the financial implications rather than immigration or (heaven forbid) the fact that I don't like any one particular political party of their comedy store leaders.

I joined the great unwashed (made redundant) two days ago so my biggest issue is making sure I'm in the country on the day of the referendum rather than being away on holiday somewhere.

[AndyB]

If we leave will the French make us move our border controls out of their country?

I don't think it would honestly make a difference long term but I do find it slightly reassuring that anyone picked up at passport control in France stays there rather than being a UK problem.

[Bionic Billy Nav]

If we leave will the French make us move our border controls out of their country?

I don't think it would honestly make a difference long term but I do find it slightly reassuring that anyone picked up at passport control in France stays there rather than being a UK problem.

The French have already said at the point the UK leaves the EU they won't be under any obligation to protect or keep our border controls in their country.

[rlkat]

a thought England votes out< Scotland votes in to trigger a new referendum :whistle: :laugh:

cheers Spud

Just listened to Nicola Sturgeon (unfortunately) on the Andrew Marr programme. She assumes most people in Scotland want to be in the EU and so would want another referendum if the UK left. She bases this on polls and a few people she knows!!!! How arrogant.

What else is she going to base it on? The polls are showing 60% in favour of remaining in the EU?

1. I think polls have been discredited by the last UK election. I'm sure she would be claiming this if that poll result was reversed. The current EU polls vary wildly.
2. "Knowing a few people" who want to remain in the EU is hardly a basis on which to hook an argument if you want to be taken seriously, politically.