BP Fill Up Wierdness (Sorry, bit long)

[Doggo]

Went to fill up at my usual BP last night. As I was waiting for the pump to switch on I heard a voice over the tannoy ask me to get off my bike. Which I did. The lass then said something unintelligible (Earplugs in/Helmet on) which sounded like something to do with authorisation. Hopped back onto the bike to fill up. No dice - no fuel.

She came out to speak to me and told me that as of a couple of weeks ago, you cannot fill your bike whilst sitting on it at a BP station due to H&S issues!!?!?

It being fairly obvious that there was no point in disputing with someone who was just doing their job, I pointed out (In a friendly way) that I wouldn't be able to fill my bike up fully if it were on the side stand and rode off.

I'm assuming that somewhere in the country someone once lost balance and dropped a bike whilst filling up, and some very ignorant, misguided creature has introduced this.
From my perspective:
- If that is what happened, the odd sidestand drop could happen anyway
- most bikes don't have centre stands (And let's be honest, who wants to do that every time even if they do). Plus millions of "centre standings" will result in some drops.
- Filling up only 3/4 is not really acceptable
- Trying to hold your bike level (Presumably with your hip) whilst filling up is asking for much more trouble if done on a mass scale

Q's:
Has this happened to anyone else?
Why on earth is this a practical H&S Issue?
What does anyone think?
Am I the only one who's going to stop using BP garages (For my car too) if this persists?

Apologies again for long thread.

[MarkE]

I had this happen once in New Zealand earlier this year, and was told it was because they had suffered ride off's. I guess they thought they could catch me if they saw me getting on the bike. Given Mrs MarkE had got off the bike to stretch her legs though, I don't see how I could have left that quickly without leaving her there (say NOTHING!). I can't remember the chain it happened at, but I know I tried to avoid using them for the rest of that holiday (not always easy, it can be a long ride between fuel stations in NZ).

Some years ago I had the centre stand on a Triumph Trophy break as I was lifting the bike onto it to fill up. I still don't know how I held it up (probably motivated by the price of Triumph plastic), but that could have been very messy indeed.

[mark1150]

This is quite an old toffee, as I'd read something remarkably similar on another forum a couple of years ago.
First I doubt whether the bike only gets a 3/4 fill up on it's side stand as nearly all the bikes that I've owned take nearly a full tank in that position, unless the stand is at an unusually acute angle.
Addressing the sitting on - getting off argument, the H+S issue is; or should I say was; generally accepted to be owing to the fact that an overfill has the potential to pump a highly combustible fluid onto a source of ignition, I.E exhaust pipe.
As far as I remember there were also side issues to do with filling rates and overfilling, where the overfill, spits petrol into the eyes of the user, and further down the list the slip hazard of petrol on the forecourt.
Personally I wouldn't ride to another filling station because they don't let me sit on the bike to fill up, but to each his or her own.

[Doggo]

:laugh:

MarkE... Hmmm. Second agenda due to ride-offs? Blaming H&S? Sounds all too likely now you mention it Would make me even less likely to use 'em in future too

RE: the centre stand - very nearly dropped mine yesterday and as you say, it's amazing where the strength comes from. A counter-point, certainly.

The missus?...no comment :whistle:

[mark1150]

IMHO the staff wouldn't try and stop a ride off, as the crim, would end up hurting the staff member if not with a punch or kick, but certainly with the bike,which would be a contravention of H+S under any risk assessment, including the dynamic one.
In any event almost all forecourts have ANPR - CCTV fitted for just that reason.
Also I would ask, how many spare staff have these stations got?, as most of the ones I frequent are generally short staffed, and nearly all work on the tills, to which the theory is that once the potential ride off pilot fills up, slings a leg over the bike and rides away, the till operator first notices that he or she is not heading towards the till; then closes said position and races out to confront them?; not likely in my book.

[dazedproductions]

I don't understand the issue. I have always filled my bikes up on the sidestand, you can't get any more fuel in with it upright unless you are overfilling it (filling it to the brim is not allowed as fuel expands when it gets warm!). Regardless, the difference in how much you can get in must be around 100ml.

IMO the BP stance is all to do with people dropping bikes as they state and BP having to clear up the mess.

[Doggo]

This is quite an old toffee, as I'd read something remarkably similar on another forum a couple of years ago.
First I doubt whether the bike only gets a 3/4 fill up on it's side stand as nearly all the bikes that I've owned take nearly a full tank in that position, unless the stand is at an unusually acute angle.
Addressing the sitting on - getting off argument, the H+S issue is; or should I say was; generally accepted to be owing to the fact that an overfill has the potential to pump a highly combustible fluid onto a source of ignition, I.E exhaust pipe.
As far as I remember there were also side issues to do with filling rates and overfilling, where the overfill, spits petrol into the eyes of the user, and further down the list the slip hazard of petrol on the forecourt.
Personally I wouldn't ride to another filling station because they don't let me sit on the bike to fill up, but to each his or her own.

Mark1150,
Cheers for post. I guess in part that's why I started this thread - to try and see if there were legitimate (and sensible) reasons for the restriction. If so, I'm more inclined to put up with it.

It'd be interesting to get figures for "Near Misses" or accidents which have occured, but I'm assuming the calculation is that as it wouldn't be percieved to make any difference to the rider, enforcement would be reasonably practicable to avoid even a minor or theoretical risk.

For the record, makes a noticeable difference in capacity with my bike - maybe not a quarter, but I'd guess a couple of litres, but maybe I have an odd shaped tank. (This of course means I'd need to fill more often... and the risk...?)

[Doggo]

I don't understand the issue. I have always filled my bikes up on the sidestand, you can't get any more fuel in with it upright unless you are overfilling it (filling it to the brim is not allowed as fuel expands when it gets warm!). Regardless, the difference in how much you can get in must be around 100ml.

IMO the BP stance is all to do with people dropping bikes as they state and BP having to clear up the mess.

Dazed - Mine isn't filled to the brim, but to the base of the nozzle/neck that's fitted in the tank as per the mfrs. manual, which obviously leaves sufficient room for expansion.

Why are you more likely to drop your bike if you fill it this way?

Either:
Roll up, open tank, fill, close, sidestand.
Or:
Roll up, sidestand, open tank, fill, close.

?
Presumably someone has some figures!

[Doggo]

IMHO the staff wouldn't try and stop a ride off, as the crim, would end up hurting the staff member if not with a punch or kick, but certainly with the bike,which would be a contravention of H+S under any risk assessment, including the dynamic one.
In any event almost all forecourts have ANPR - CCTV fitted for just that reason.
Also I would ask, how many spare staff have these stations got?, as most of the ones I frequent are generally short staffed, and nearly all work on the tills, to which the theory is that once the potential ride off pilot fills up, slings a leg over the bike and rides away, the till operator first notices that he or she is not heading towards the till; then closes said position and races out to confront them?; not likely in my book.

Can't argue with that.
Not sure if my station has cameras at the rear of the station, which may make a difference for bikes...?

[dazedproductions]

For the record, makes a noticeable difference in capacity with my bike - maybe not a quarter, but I'd guess a couple of litres, but maybe I have an odd shaped tank. (This of course means I'd need to fill more often... and the risk...?)

Fair enough, you are in the minority though. I can quite easily fill my safari tank over the manufacturers recommendation on the side stand but it does taper towards the top.

I suspect the dropping comes from people filling it without the side stand down. they then either reach over to put the pump back, over stretch and topple or they get off the bike without fastening the fuel tank and forget the side stand. I have seen someone do it once although I forget which way they managed. It would be less likely for a bike to go over filling it when its on a stand (would need to either break or topple)
Or, spin around to chat to mate on bike behind, loose balance and bike goes down!