French Abr Rally

[Tramp]

Glad to here your on the Mend Paul...I was asking after you as where a few others at Phils place recently where Darren was riding with us...it was a unfortunate accident you had but could have been a lot worse ..

I wont comment on the other stuff not for me to do so..

[Simon_100]

Being the person who attended the HISS last year and was unfortunate to crash and break my leg in 2 places and my ankle, receive several stitches to my arm and a torn ligament in my shoulder,I feel that the reference to myself is rather disingenuous.

Being referenced to on a thread with others who ride on trails that are prohibited and people riding/driving without mot/tax/insurance and being called a knob is getting out of hand.
Simon s right I didn't have my eu106, I had packed prescription exemption card by mistake and Simon may recall this is why handed over my credit card before they would attend to me. Private health, don’t know many who can afford this nowadays, and why would I have it. I had holiday insurance that did prove to be inadequate and like most insurances the details only become important when you have to claim. The restriction was for a 250cc bike, and taking out the insurance at no point was this made apparent. Others beware.

The experience has cost me dearly, the return to the uk was arduous and painful, the Spanish hospital had not diagnosed the broken ankle and I had to travel alone with my foot dangling out of the end of the plaster through the car journeys and the flight. I paid for the 3 seats on the plane £560, taxis £180, hotel £80, crutches £30 and medical bills.

12 months on and 3 operations with a leg in plaster for 8 months I still have a limp and haven’t worked for most of the year. Being a builder I have lost my living and am now placing our family home that I spent 3 years building on the market due to debt.

I am not telling anyone this for sympathy, but to maybe get people to think before they start posting on forums about individuals. Throughout the whole saga I have paid my own way, and not asked anything of anyone. I have not gone down the path of the claim culture we live in or blamed anyone but myself.

Paul,

I'm sorry that you've picked this one up personally - I didn't name you and that wasn't my intention at all, as I'm sure you must realise.

My point was to highlight the difficulty that anyone planning to hold a rally abroad really has to take on board how much they have to consider when asking people to travel overseas - I used the term 'naive' in relation to them, not the people attending the rally.

I remember telling people just how risky trail riding is in this region and faced - still do - a certain amount of ridicule for saying the same - perhaps its a pity that the 'macho' ones didn't take the fall like you did.

Even now, i.e. yesterday, I've been riding trails alone ahead of next week's HISS to try to make sure that they are 'safe' or indeed rideable at all. Well, you know all about how lonely that feels if you have a fall.

Looking at the posts - from ten months ago which at the time I wasn't aware of - I saw folks just assuming that all you have to do is rent a field and get on with it. Well, it's not as simple as that. That's been my major concern - apparently not shared by the powers-that-be at ABR.

In fact, in the light of this topic - not your post Paul - I think I've decided never again to hold or organise a rally or event of any kind.

Regs

Simon

[AndyB]

Simon,

I'm not trying to argue that nobody misbehaves when they're away from home (and their wives) because we all know it happens and nearly every nation has its share of idiots but they all pretend it doesn't happen. I go to the Elefant rally nearly every year and there'll be a group of Spaniards trying to outdo the Brits who are trying to outdo the Germans and so it goes on but they're neither indicative of their country as a whole nor are they indicative of what they themselves are really like when you sit down and share a beer with them, they're just letting their hair down and would be horrified if they realised the consequences of some of their actions.

[PHILinFRANCE]

Gentelmen please !!!!! this is getting heavy !!!!

Lets just get out there and ENJOY OURSELVES


By the way
Good to hear from you Paul and all the best for the future mate.
Phil

[Redmurty]

I know Britfrog and I witnessed what he did and tried to do for his local village when he organised a rally a couple of years back, any funds raise went into the local rugby club to enhance their facilities after they allowed us to use them.
The local were very happy to have us around and using Britfrog's interpretation skills had a long conversation re the views of the locals and us Brits with regards to each other, they liked me after I told them I was half Irish half Welsh and therefore not responsible for burning Joan Of Arc :laugh:
I have seen a lot of expats who do try to integrate but I have seen a lot that don't but living in the midlands I see a lot of "new brits" who do not integrate at all, that's just human behaviour.
We have all seen the idiots abroad who make us all cringe and after a long time in the military I cant put my hand on my heart and say I have never been in that group, but as I got older and hopefully wiser, I realised that was not the way to travel and see our great world.
So we will never ever get rid of the idiots but the rest of us can show our best side and hopefully undo some of the damage others cause.
Britfrog, Simon and Phil are great ambassadors for this country so from me lads keep up the good work, and to the rest of our community who travel to broaden our horizons again I salute you keep those wheels turning

cheers Spud

[Simon_100]

Gentelmen please !!!!! this is getting heavy !!!!

Lets just get out there and ENJOY OURSELVES


By the way
Good to hear from you Paul and all the best for the future mate.
Phil

Thanks Phil - wise words from a wise man

But some 'unfinished business':

Paul, I've been puzzled by some of the things you said that you seem to have taken as referring to you - last night posts were happening quick fire so it was difficult to keep track and it's only now I've been able to read back properly and make some sense of this.

Firstly, I repeat that when I mentioned you, anonymously, as an example it was meant as a warning to potential organisers of the kind of thing that might happen and was not personal at all. I recall vividly when we both found the 'small print' in the so-called adventure the travel insurance that you had bought, thus making the whole repatriation process so much more complicated, and costly in the end.

Of course your missing EU card was an accident, but my point was that these things happen. For example I should also point out that one of the reasons I couldn't get to Phil's rally, and missed meeting Darren again was that when I checked my own EU health card, having posted a reminder on Phil's topic, I found that mine had expired - taking a week to replace! Then I found that my bike's ITV (Spanish MoT) would expire while I was there - then the b*****y bike failed the test and then I lost three days running around getting parts that I should have ordered months before! So, we're all human - erring being core to our very nature!

You're accident was really bad luck and had no reflection on you're riding skill or any recklessness on your part. Mr X and I did an 'autopsy' later in the week and saw how your skid had led to an inevitable fall on a very treacherous surface - and despite the rotten luck you've had since (which I didn't know about, the last time I remember that we were in touch you appeared to be well on the road to recovery), you avoided a much worse accident -not dropping on the other side of the trail, over a fifty metre drop into impenetrable forest - as it struck me at the time that you must have 'downed' yourself and that takes some guts!

None of the rest of my comments referred to your example at all - and I wrote them in separate paragraphs specifically because of this. Although it might have been more clear if I'd used bullet points or paragraph numbers, etc., I write for a living so as of habit I to stick to the rules and conventions. (In parentheses: Russ, take it easy on Britfrog, he was perfectly correct to write his comments in one big paragraph as it was all about the same subject. Although it does make things harder to read on computer screens, at the end of the day grammar is grammar!)

Now the other stuff: you seem to have taken Russ's mention of someone being a 'knob' as referring to you. Well, that was Russ's comment but I'm absolutely certain it was referring to something that happend later in the week, after you had left and so you couldn't have known about. OK, I didn't make that comment so over to Russ perhaps.

Likewise, the bit about people driving without insurance was Britfrog's comments about ex-pats driving their cars/bikes in France without legal liability insurance. Obviously this was nothing to do with you but this is becoming a terrible problem here, and not just the Brits - thanks AndyB for putting that one into perspective - the latest example here in Spain, which occurred just a few miles from my home in Tarragona a week or two ago - was when a French driver in an Andorran plated Porche ran down and killed one young cyclist and leaving another seriously injured. Once apprehended - he trashed the car, it was that bad! - the driver tested positive - very positive! - for both cocaine and alcohol. As the driver was resident in France none of the paperwork added up and he got off with the legal maximum 'bail' of €15,000 - i.e. buttons to someone who has a spare Porche and a coke habit - and needless to say has now skipped the country. In the process leaving the cyclists or their families with little or no recourse for compensation.

I hope that puts all these comments into a better perspective

Meanwhile, this is how bad it's getting here in Spain: I've already had to suspend my planned HISS in Aragon next October due to more stringent application of trail riding regulations - imposed after the terrible rate of forest fires last year - which takes roughly half the trails in Aragon, which is pretty much the size of Wales, out of bounds. The outcome for me is that I have had to wave goodbye to about €500 that I've already spent on reconnaissance visits. What have forest fires got to do with ABR riders? Well, I'm not going to start that one again - see below!

Finally, phew!

Spud, aka Redmurty. Thanks for your comment about Phil, Britfrog and me being 'ambassadors' for the Brits - certainly the case in the former two. But I think 'ambassadors' need a certain level of diplomacy - not my strong point to put it mildly - but I'm on a learning curve of sorts

Regs

Simon

[Redmurty]

Simon you vastly underestimate yourself mate, the comment was made to all three and meant for all three equally.

I have a spare place on my "how to be a diplomat" course with your name on it mate, the course last oh at least 2 minutes.

As I said lets show them the good side of biking and bikers. B)

cheers Spud

[Rhys]

My opinion - Like it or not :woohoo: . Everyone is responsible for themselves and for where they decide to ride, if they decide to ride illegally then they should be prepared face the consequences themselves. The fact that its during the HISS, during a organised ABR rally or whatever is irrelevant. End of - I don't really think there is anything more to it. If somebody doesn't agree it should be brought up in a quiet word on the side, or sent in a PM, not posted on a public forum.

At the same time, what is out of order and unfair on the event organiser, is people posting videos of illegal riding with the event name in the video title, for example someone posting a video of illegal riding in the pyrenees with 'HISS' in the title would be wrong and unfair on Simon and his event.

To the HISS I didn't take a EU health card (lost) neither did i have any travel insurance (forgot) or breakdown cover (too dear). That was my own decision and if it was to go tits up i would have faced the consequences and the cost myself. I wouldn't expect any sympathy but at the same time i wouldn't expect someone to post on the forum about it. Everyone can do what they want.

Simon did a great job of organising the HISS last year, just like Russ/Phil/Jax did with the PHISS this year, but everyone can make their own decisions and face the consequences for themselves.

[Em-J]

Locking this thread as it's gone off topic. Anyone who'd like to chat more about a meet up in France, please feel free to start a new topic.

Cheers, Em

[LargeWayRound]

Locking this thread as it's gone off topic. Anyone who'd like to chat more about a meet up in France, please feel free to start a new topic.

Cheers, Em

Sorry EM , you locked it before I could hit Send ..




I have tried to get to the grips of what is going on on this thread ..

I have a couple of pieces of advice ..

Simon , you stated in several posts referring to ABR not responding to you.
I would suggest to try again , if no joy try PMing Treadtrader , he is in contact with Alun directly.

Anyone who would like to hold a rally *ABR* Rally contact James691 directly .

Anyone who wants to hold a meet (in the UK or elsewhere ) should consider the rules of land in where the event is taking place . And if in any doubt they should seek advice from a legal figure in that country . For example do you need public liability insurances in place , to protect the host of said event.

This is why in my view that doing events in the UK is fine , campsites have there own insurances , and when out on the road Each person is responsible for there own actions . Offroading is a different matter and the Laws should be considered .

i.e. England v Scotland different Laws . Spain v France different laws .

So the up shot is , if a member wants to host an event i.e. volunteer then they should consider the implications of doing so , time spend planning, etc etc.

More details regarding holding an event in the UK , can be offered by James691
But I assume that his advice will not extend to legalities outside the UK .

And since this thread is so old and there has already been a french meet at Phils this year , I consider this thread now to gone way off topic .

LWR