Brecon Beacons ROW Questionnaire.

[Hugh]

Greetings folks,

A quick note to advise you of a positive initiative by the Brecon Beacons National Park Authority to initiate a questionnaire.

It took me a few minutes to complete it but with positive suggestions from ourselves perhaps we might influence the Authority to work more closely with the representatives of our hobby, such as the TRF and GLASS.

I love green lane riding in the area and I always find the folk and businesses most welcoming but the official website and literature seems, to me, to only invite typically middle class white ethnic groups and not as the Parks were set up to do which was to encourage all responsible users.

If you might like to have a say then please follow the link;

http://www.beacons-npa.gov.uk/environme ... tionnaire/

TTFN

Hugh.

[PaulinBont]

Call me a sceptic but............

The BBNPA have a history of being virulently anti-Trail Riding; the refusal to accept historic evidence that Sarn Helen should have retained vehicular rights post-NERC and CROW being just one of many instances where TRO's have been imposed ie on the Gap Road etc: Access for All - as long as you are not riding or driving on a By-way.

Saying that, unless we all return the completed questionairre, then the more vocal 'antis', such as the Ramblers and Horse Riders will be heard over us.

Bear in mind, the reference to 'Motorcyclists" is intended to refer to road riding in the Beacons; there is no reference to Trail Riding, only 4x4's.

Please could someone who is on Facebook share this questionairre with Valley Dual Sports Riders and the TRF.

[boboneleg]

I totally respect all the hard work you do Hugh but I too do not trust the BBNP one bit and it wouldn't surprise me if they used anything a vehicle user might write in a questionnaire and turn it around against those users.

[Rob 110]

"Reinstate use of Sarn Helen, Pontsticill Reservoir & Gap Road byways for motor vehicles." seems a good reply to many questions

[Hugh]

Greetings again folks,

Thanks for putting forward your views. I totally empathise with all that each of you has said yet without communication there can be no relationship between the various parties and therefore effectively no positive way forward.

It is they who have broken the trust and no matter how hard they might try to be more even handed in the future ultimately we will still not trust them. Unfortunately with each example of mistrust the chances of our trusting diminishes.

We have the same situation here in the Peak District, however our little team can not just walk away from the table and we will keep pushing our points of view. Who can we trust, the Officers; the Chairman; the Councillors, the concept? I do not know if there is an answer only that in the present situation there is little real evidence of trust by either side of the debate.

Maybe, just maybe, we can find a way to change their perceptions, I would that it were through discussion plus joint ventures rather than the threat of legal challenges. The money would be better spent on improving the routes and the mental effort channelled into improving the education and motivation of others.

I too have had my trust in others broken, predominately in industrial relations, but sometimes the light switches on with somebody on the other side of the table and we can try to start again. We have to try and keep the pendulum of power steady. It perhaps might be day dreaming on my part but still it is better than the nightmare of anarchy.

On a positive note there is evidence of improving relationships with other Authorities but not enough to think that the tide has turned where we can claim mutual respect and partnership.

TTFN

Hugh.

[The Sarge]

The problem is Hugh, the dark forces are gaining in numbers.
My last dealings with BNP was a legal threat from them by way of a letter, the heading included SENTA and Dyfed Powys Police, the wording :
" We have reason to believe that your vehicle has been involved in an illegal offroad activity " FFS !!!
The BNP warden was walking round Glan Usk services taking the Reg numbers of all offroad vehicles whilst we were having a brew, accompanied by a fake copper. When I questioned them as to the purpose of their exercise they told me "they were carrying out a survey on the number of offroad vehicles in the BNP vicinity" ?????? 3 days later the letter arrived

So forgive my reticence toward this survey, but it would appear that minds are already made up and an agenda is being carried out by the BNPA, Police and SENTA.

Sarge

[garyboy]

keep up the good work, Hugh

I think many of us welshies have given up the legal fight.
we have written to AMs and MPs but it is just a paper trail of no effect.
in particular I wanted to know .. with what authority do BBNPA close trails to mpv's
(an assumption of the secretary of states implied powers?)
they do not own the land, and there are no tro's,
they have changed status from boats to restricted byways ?
(perhaps just nerc 2006?)
they harass m/c's and stop us illegally, even tho they ride the same trail with their vehicles?
they erect illegal signs !!
they threaten to confiscate bikes ( I read) and set up road blocks with trailers at the ready (seen pics).
they pursue innocent riders into cafe's and intimidate them,
they issue illegal or false papers which are not actually summonses .. but threats.
they are persistent and have caused a lot of legal activity to now stop,
probably increasing illegal stuff? which is more irresponsible.
even the taffy Dakar is now changed to exclude the SARN !!
.. a route that has been used even before roman times!!

perhaps an outside source like yourself will see a fresh way to approach bbnpa?
I hope so.
even the trf has lost a lot of welsh membership over the sarn affair.
perhaps that can be repaired?

one thing encouraging .. the bbnpa actually MENTION motorcycles in their new `questionnaire`

Gary.

[HedgeHopper]

Would be nice to have a reasonable exchange with the BBNP people, but after having the same illegal threatning letter that Sarge mentions and experiencing the intimidation tactics they employ, I fear its a waste of time

They treated me like an outlaw when I am actually legal

[Barftone]

Done. Thanks for the heads up

[Old Git Ray]

The above scenario regarding taking the number plates of parked up vehicles in a cafe bothers me immensely. The fact that you have a dirty bike is no justification for a council employee to ask plod for a vehicle check, especially on mass.

As ex plod, I would say that the PNC/DVLA database has been accessed illegally. There is, as far as I can see, no justification for accessing your personal data from the DVLA and is therefore a breach of the Data Protection Act.

When I used the PNC, I had to justify every vehicle check that I did and also write down (type) where the vehicle was when the check was done. This sounds like an abuse of power to me. At some point someone has had to input the VRMs into the PNC and it is logged to an individual operator.

Somebody did the checks and their access is logged. I suggest an official complaint to the police might be the way to go.

Here's Dyfed Powys Police 'Professional Standards Department' email address. [email protected]