needing information

mr.adi · Post by **mr.adi** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:07 am

hi all,
when i read some of your posts, i keep finding explanation about "having to have permit" to venture into certain off-roading areas. would anybody kindly explain what does that mean?, do you have to have a permit to go offroading in the UK?
and if i were to go ride in the UK one day ( :unsure: ), how do i go about applying such permit? sorry if i sound ignorant, but i really do not understand that, perhaps because we do not have the same kind of law or regulation here in my place.
thanks friends!

byewayrider · Post by **byewayrider** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:47 am

Hello Mr.Adi,

IN the uk we have a regulated system for riding offroad as you call it ..the legal term is a "byeway open to all traffic" or boat for short..the link below should help lots and are a very good group and will help especially if you join..my thoughts folks.

http://www.trf.org.uk/

Also if you where coming the the uk on Holiday to ride the "green lanes" I am sure some local riders would offer to show you the local trails if given advance notice..

unfortunately in the uk the Ramblers assosiation [walkers] seem to want to close lots of the "boats"..

As for "permits" I`m sure that is specific to certain county`s in the UK..wiltshire requires non (thumbs) and is one of the best area`s along with Wales for trail riding..

hope this helps

johnnyboxer · Post by **johnnyboxer** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:53 am

Boats aren't the only green lanes

There are ucr's too - unclassified county roads

The permits you are asking about are certain lanes in the Lake District National Park

I am favour of a permit system for all of uk

It would answer the access issue once and for all

It would stop overuse by trail riders & 4x4's & lane damage

The revenue generated by a permit system could pay for lane repairs & proper signage

AndyB · Post by **AndyB** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:22 am

johnnyboxer wrote:Boats aren't the only green lanes

There are ucr's too - unclassified county roads

The permits you are asking about are certain lanes in the Lake District National Park

I am favour of a permit system for all of uk

It would answer the access issue once and for all

It would stop overuse by trail riders & 4x4's & lane damage

The revenue generated by a permit system could pay for lane repairs & proper signage

The UK has had a permit system in place for decades; it's called a driving licence and if you've got one (and any bike specific requirements) you should be allowed to ride on any public right of way (thumbs)

johnnyboxer · Post by **johnnyboxer** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:57 am

AndyB wrote:
johnnyboxer wrote:Boats aren't the only green lanes

There are ucr's too - unclassified county roads

The permits you are asking about are certain lanes in the Lake District National Park

I am favour of a permit system for all of uk

It would answer the access issue once and for all

It would stop overuse by trail riders & 4x4's & lane damage

The revenue generated by a permit system could pay for lane repairs & proper signage
The UK has had a permit system in place for decades; it's called a driving licence and if you've got one (and any bike specific requirements) you should be allowed to ride on any public right of way (thumbs)

Nope, I completely disagree

Offroad trail riding is in a mess in 2013

We are being attacked on all fronts, lanes are declining and being shut

A new way is needed

A system that is run by permits and cannot be challenged by NPA's and Ramblers, or abused by irresponsible trail users too

A trails would be mapped, which would be issued to permit holders

Trails would be clearly signed 'on the ground' for all to see and Ramblers would know that bikes and cars are allowed to use it

Repairs would be made and voluntary restraint could be enforces to trails

This system at present ain't working and by 2025 I think trailriding will be extinct in the UK...............finished, unless we all change

The pressure is on US..............not the Ramblers

byewayrider · Post by **byewayrider** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:32 am

ow boy

what must our Malay friends think of us scwabling over whats right and wrong ..AndyB is correct as a legal road worthy vehicle is all thats required to ride what are basically "public highways" why the extra cost ,hassle of needing pemits..

who would police them?

As I said I ride where I like always with respect and little damage,never had a problem except the odd footpath stye or 5 bared gate :whistle: ..

Mr.Adi..Europe bu that I mean France,Spain,Portugal and the old Eastern block have more places to ride.so if the uk doesnt want you..dont worry..

Once rode the Hills Around Penang and the old hill Tea plantaions down to Kl (thumbs) ..brilliant stuff.

Mike101 · Post by **Mike101** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:42 am

In wiltshire we have a lot of "permissive byeways". These are open to all only when the army say we can go on them. They are controlled by red flags and gates.

Mike

Richard Simpson · Post by **Richard Simpson** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:47 am

mr.adi wrote:hi all,
when i read some of your posts, i keep finding explanation about "having to have permit" to venture into certain off-roading areas. would anybody kindly explain what does that mean?, do you have to have a permit to go offroading in the UK?
and if i were to go ride in the UK one day ( :unsure: ), how do i go about applying such permit? sorry if i sound ignorant, but i really do not understand that, perhaps because we do not have the same kind of law or regulation here in my place.
thanks friends!

To return to the original question.

There is no 'public' land in the UK. It's all owned by some person or organisation, or owned by the government. It's all private land.

It's an offence to drive on private land without the owner's express permission. This is normally most easily obtained by an club or commercial operation paying for its use then organising an event (race or trial) which you pay to take part in.

There are public rights of way of four different classes which cross private land. Of these only Byways Open To All Traffic (BOAT) are open to motor vehicles, although some Restricted Byways may retain vehicular rights. Bridleways and Footpaths are not vehicular rights of way.

There are also Unclassified County Roads, which are legally roads, but not maintained to the normal standards required for motor vehicles.

Rights of way in England and Wales are managed by the County (local) Councils. They have the power to close BOATs to various classes of user for a number of reasons. Some County Councils have initiated a permit system where access is only granted to those who have applied successfully for a permit. This system seems to have worked well in some areas were irresponsible use was a problem.

johnnyboxer · Post by **johnnyboxer** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:48 am

Richard Simpson wrote:
Rights of way in England and Wales are managed by the County (local) Councils. They have the power to close BOATs to various classes of user for a number of reasons.

Some County Councils have initiated a permit system where access is only granted to those who have applied successfully for a permit. This system seems to have worked well in some areas were irresponsible use was a problem.

Well said Richard

I know the 'I have a driving licence, so I'll use my road legal trail/enduro bike where I want, thanks' argument

However, fellas.....................it ain't working too well, is it

Now we can jump up and down in places like the Peaks, having Tea Parties and like, moaning how unfair the PDNPA (all all NPA's) are to us, closing all our favorite lanes......Boo Hoo

However what we need is to change, for the sake of all trailriding

We are the bad guys, like it or not...............but we are and that's how we're seen

The 'legal' carriageways we know as trails were used by carts/horses initially and then in the 20th Century, light converted road bikes and cars - with minimum suspension travel and trials type tyres

Now, these carriageways are being used by 40-50hp Enduro bikes, with 12" of suspension travel, extreme knobbly tyres and by Landies with extreme tyres,winches and V8 power

Any fool can see this ain't sustainable for more than 20-30 years (explosion is trailriding has happened since year 2000 or thereabouts) - the routes are being damaged beyond comprehension

I think a permit system is the best way forward, where lanes could be effectively used and maintained for all trail users, we'd get no grief and on some lanes 4x4's could be excluded with barriers because they cause too much damage

A good example is Deadman's in Yorkshire, recently re-opened after a 18 month TRO, some repairs have happened, a member here has put up pics that more damage has occured since Aug 2013 - by 4x4's most probably, so now we're back to square 1, it will more than likely TRO'd for ever soon

Deadman's is not sustainable for 4WD's, but because of the general classification they use it, if it was subject to a permit and barrier system preventing 4x4's, then bikes can use it for the next 50 years

We need to own the problem, not ignore it

I'd pay £100-£200 per year for a permit to use the lanes, properly

Richard Simpson · Post by **Richard Simpson** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:25 am

There's a video here of the latest lanes they want to close in the Peak District. This film was taken on the day of Picnic in the Park, when over 100 bikes and recreational 4x4s were using the lane. The only damage that I can see has been done by tractors, and there isn't much of that. The lane is narrow in places, but a one-way system and 20 mph speed limit for vehicles would cure that.