Crash caught on helmet cam

[-Ralph-]

Come on Ralph, if you are going to give a controversial opinion and big yourself up (I have lost count of the times you have reminded the forum that you are an advanced rider) then you should expect some sarcasm

I didn't "big myself up" I simply offered an opinion, then when somebody else started to suggest they knew more than me because of their 18,000 miles a year and say I obviously didn't ride in rush hour traffic, I replied with the facts. I didn't mention any of it until somebody else bought it into conversation.

[DaveCon]

I can't help feeling there's a bit of "target fixation" in the riders eyes. All he can see is the van and the accident waiting to happen.

If he's got time to say "no,no,no" or whatever, he's got time to do something because your brain works so much faster than your whole vocalising system.

Having been in similar situations (although probably not as extreme), and to be honest, who hasn't who rides a lot and commutes, I think I would have been looking for and attempting to take escape routes. Probably taken out my left shoulder on the side of the van to match my right shoulder :pinch:

It's all bad

[-Ralph-]

If he's got time to say "no,no,no" or whatever, he's got time to do something because your brain works so much faster than your whole vocalising system.

Exactly what my father used to say, long before advanced riding was a thing. His phrase was "if you had time to beep the horn, you had time to do something about it"

[-Ralph-]

The junction was there, the van was slowing down, the van was positioning to the right of his lane, he probably even had his indicator though we can't see it in the video.
.

I don't see any evidence the van was obviously slowing down.He didn't position to the right of his lane either,just swung across in one movement and I've no idea why you would assume he probably had his indicator on. :unsure:

He turned at 30mph did he?

If you can't see the van was moving across the centre line long before the rider shouted arrrgh the only way I can help you is give you a lift to specsavers.

Probably, not definitely, had had a car up his backside I'd like to think there are still more people who would indicate in that situation than wouldn't, so its a balance of probability.

[-Ralph-]

(I have lost count of the times you have reminded the forum that you are an advanced rider)

PS: It's a motorcycling forum, we talk about motorcycling, advanced riding is a big part of motorcycling.

I've lost count of how many times you've reminded the forum you're an ex-copper.

I won't be mentioning it again though because people who haven't done it just don't get it and it always ends up like this. It's up to them if they want to do it and learn something great, if they don't want to and want to carry on getting knocked off by blind drivers and pretending they are clear of any responsibility, that's up to them too, not my problem, I'm not going to try and give advice anymore.

[Andy A]

I think its a bit rich suggesting everybody who isn't an advanced rider will carry on getting knocked off, most don't.

There are alternative and valid points of view on this thread none of which are necessarily wrong, its easy to say which was the wrong choice after the event.

I find advice is a wonderful thing if it has been asked for, otherwise it can be taken very differently.

[-Ralph-]

I think its a bit rich suggesting everybody who isn't an advanced rider will carry on getting knocked off, most don't.

There are alternative and valid points of view on this thread none of which are necessarily wrong, its easy to say which was the wrong choice after the event.

I find advice is a wonderful thing if it has been asked for, otherwise it can be taken very differently.

Yes, it's a bit rich, but I'm pissed off. They may not be getting knocked off, but to carry the attitude there was absolutely nothing the guy could have done, which lots of people have said, is to put all of the responsibility on the other motorist, and take none of it yourself. If you don't take responsibility for the environment around you, and you are having regular close calls with blind drivers, then eventually one of the close calls won't be a close call, it'll be the rider getting knocked off. You also can't learn from something until you take responsibility for it. That's about Motorcycle Roadcraft page 5.

You are absolutely right though, advice is only welcome if it's asked for, and I should have kept my gob shut. On a forum, even if someone asks for advice though, if you give it, then a load of other people who take no responsibility for themselves chip in and say you are talking crap, so like I say, not my problem anymore, I'm not giving advice even if it is asked for. Every advanced riding conversation on a forum ends in this way.

[sprintster]

The junction was there, the van was slowing down, the van was positioning to the right of his lane, he probably even had his indicator though we can't see it in the video.
.

I don't see any evidence the van was obviously slowing down.He didn't position to the right of his lane either,just swung across in one movement and I've no idea why you would assume he probably had his indicator on. :unsure:

He turned at 30mph did he?

If you can't see the van was moving across the centre line long before the rider shouted arrrgh the only way I can help you is give you a lift to specsavers.

Probably, not definitely, had had a car up his backside I'd like to think there are still more people who would indicate in that situation than wouldn't, so its a balance of probability.

I haven't been in a collision with another vehicle since I was 17 so even if I haven't had advanced training I think I must be doing something right.I'm not perfect but maybe all us untrained riders aren't as useless as you think.

[-Ralph-]

The junction was there, the van was slowing down, the van was positioning to the right of his lane, he probably even had his indicator though we can't see it in the video.
.

I don't see any evidence the van was obviously slowing down.He didn't position to the right of his lane either,just swung across in one movement and I've no idea why you would assume he probably had his indicator on. :unsure:

He turned at 30mph did he?

If you can't see the van was moving across the centre line long before the rider shouted arrrgh the only way I can help you is give you a lift to specsavers.

Probably, not definitely, had had a car up his backside I'd like to think there are still more people who would indicate in that situation than wouldn't, so its a balance of probability.

I haven't been in a collision with another vehicle since I was 17 so even if I haven't had advanced training I think I must be doing something right.I'm not perfect but maybe all us untrained riders aren't as useless as you think.

Well done, very glad to hear it. The main reason I end up in these debates is because I don't like seeing riders getting hurt, so it genuinely pleases me when I hear somebody say that. And I didn't do any advanced training until about 5 years ago, so spidey senses and what my Dad taught me got me that far. Still learned a lot doing the training though, and think I'm safer after it than I was before it.

[Old Git Ray]

Come on Ralph, if you are going to give a controversial opinion and big yourself up (I have lost count of the times you have reminded the forum that you are an advanced rider) then you should expect some sarcasm

I didn't "big myself up" I simply offered an opinion, then when somebody else started to suggest they knew more than me because of their 18,000 miles a year and say I obviously didn't ride in rush hour traffic, I replied with the facts. I didn't mention any of it until somebody else bought it into conversation.

(I have lost count of the times you have reminded the forum that you are an advanced rider)

PS: It's a motorcycling forum, we talk about motorcycling, advanced riding is a big part of motorcycling.

I've lost count of how many times you've reminded the forum you're an ex-copper.

I won't be mentioning it again though because people who haven't done it just don't get it and it always ends up like this. It's up to them if they want to do it and learn something great, if they don't want to and want to carry on getting knocked off by blind drivers and pretending they are clear of any responsibility, that's up to them too, not my problem, I'm not going to try and give advice anymore.

OK mate, you win. Keep safe.