Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Anything goes, and mine's a Guinness.
Andi_Archer
Posts: 1795
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:13 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by Andi_Archer » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:22 am

The whole system needed to be radically restructured to prevent a repetition
I quite agree and whilst I don't support them in any way whatsoever, the government have to start somewhere and I did catch a bit on the tv interview regarding these funds in which a repetition of giving it to shareholders or buying back shares etc would not be allowed for at least 1 year after the loan finishes.

We cant equate what happened in 2008 with the Banks and greed to what is happening now through no fault of our economy, but which the later will have widespread effects to all especially the leisure and supply industries in which the UK has sunk much since losing any major industry in a viable hardware product to export.
Last edited by Andi_Archer on Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

Adventure Bike Rider New Issue Out Now
User avatar
garyboy
Posts: 2905
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:14 pm
Location: Pontypridd
Has thanked: 1272 times
Been thanked: 532 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by garyboy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:26 am

Ok, so none of us are snowy white and most of us will take a bargain .. but when I went self employed I was 100% ligit .. and still people accused me to my face, of fiddling.. as I was charging next to nothing as loss leaders.

I found that the inland revenue would leave you alone as long as you were declaring something.. so there is no excuse for blatant disregard of the rules.

People who are claiming and working are depriving the country of revenue AND stealing by benefit fraud.

Flipflop
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:11 pm
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by Flipflop » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:33 am

daveuprite wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:57 am
Flipflop wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:23 am
daveuprite wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:21 am
Andi_Archer wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:03 am
, asking the government i.e. in effect the taxpayer to bail them out is it not just encouraging them to continue to do the same?
What, rather like the bankers in 2008 ?
More blame game perpetuated by people who profit from such stuff.
The banking crises was created by a combination of bankers greed, people wanting more than they could afford and very very poor mathematics.
The government’s of the world didn’t bale out the banks they saved us, lucky enough to live in the 1st world, from going back to the life style our grandparents had - my paternal grandfather was born in the work house and, when I was a kid, we would visit my maternal grandparents who had no running water so I’m out :D
No one I know was negatively affected by quantitive easing, in fact everyone I know has financially gained since then. I’m sure there may be some worse off but the possibility to improve your lot is still there, and this is due to the ability to borrow money from banks - rather than the Kray twins.

As far as cash in the building trade goes, it’s just not worth it. If you get investigated as a couple of my friends have (it’s a name out of the bag scenario) they look into everything you do and own - check how you pay for shopping, holidays, check all your transport etc..etc..etc... any anomaly’s and your bill will be way higher than the extra money you earned.

The thing about career criminals is that they’re prepared or used to doing porridge so they can just sit in there rooms and wait it out, happy in the knowledge that, once this is over, a lot of people will be out :|

My, non expert, advice to your friend would be to contact the tax office after Coronavirus is all over, explain his situation and ask for a deal. I did this many years ago: after I came back from travelling in my 20s I worked for cash for a while but decided I needed to get back into the system. They gave me an emergency tax number for a year or so and a bill for NI which I also payed over a year or so. They are very happy to welcome back tax payers into the system and therefore very helpful well at least they were in the 80s - circumstances may be similar now with high unemployment after Coronavirus.
Best wishes to him
Firstly, thanks for that advice to Graham, which I'll relay to him. It would definitely be best for him to get back in the system, and his is a spent conviction now, so he really ought to regularise his affair (as HMRC would call it). But he's understandably nervous of being fined and/or asked for a large back-tax payment.

As to 'quantitative easing' - well that is a fiscal euphemism for the mass transfer of public funds into the private sector - which in the case of the banking sector was deemed too big to allow it to fail. Given that most public funding is gleaned from lower and middle class tax-payers, it was also a huge gift from poorer contributors to the richest corporations, executives and share-holders, many of whom took it as bonuses, dividends and share buy-backs. The public realm, the welfare state and public services were starved for 12 years to save the banks. Very little has been learnt from 2008, and the banks are mostly still deemed too big to fail and would still be bailed out today in the same circumstances. Which is why I replied that they have no disincentive or discouragement from making exactly the same reckless mistakes all over again. The whole system needed to be radically restructured to prevent a repetition, but instead bankers were basically rewarded for their failure. There are plenty of alternatives to an unwieldy banking sector gambling with our savings, pensions etc, and certainly not loan sharks or kray twins. For instance, locally run small-scale credit unions which invest in proper businesses, not exchange-rate speculation and margin calls.

It's an interesting subject, sure, but all a little bit academic in the current circumstances, because the next world recession that was brewing and due fairly soon anyway has just been brought forward to now by Covid.
I agree with all that but people who work in banking and politicians are just people in our society and reflective of it. That is how the blame game works and why divide and rule has been a documented political tactic since the Romans.
I also agree that it’s academic as there is a certain amount of human nature involved - and you can’t beat nature of any kind.
Just to underline both my points Boris has just tested positive for Coronavirus.
Health to him and all.

Jak*
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:05 pm
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 292 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by Jak* » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:01 pm

There are a hell of a lot of people in legitimate employment who do not pay income tax, because they fall below the threshold. Most of us,regardless of employment status, pay a lot of tax through vat, tax on alcohol, petrol etc. For the lower paid this is often a much higher proportion of their income than the richer members of society.
Cheers

Andi_Archer
Posts: 1795
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:13 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by Andi_Archer » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:17 pm

Yes but VAT is on "luxury goods" and Tax on alcohol is dependent on the percentage alcoholic content of the drink.

User avatar
Scott_rider
Posts: 2001
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:47 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 75 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by Scott_rider » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:56 pm

Just an observation...if under the new schemes someone who is on PAYE receives £2500 per month then that is their income to spend on running their home/family etc...BUT someone who is self-employed will have to use that same sum of money to not only run their home/family BUT also to run their business, no matter how small. By that, I mean, rent on premises, trade subscriptions, advertising commitments, a van lease, etc. etc...
Yamaha Tracer 900...the KTM 450 EXC-R has gone

User avatar
Mosel Bikes
Posts: 1096
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: Sheepwash
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by Mosel Bikes » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:39 pm

CHOICE, small word, big implications - even bigger ramifications ... for us all, now, next year, next decade, forever.
Just watch and wait, if you live.
Greyhound Racing .... don't bet, don't go - you bet, they die :cry:

Flipflop
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:11 pm
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by Flipflop » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:04 pm

Andi_Archer wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:17 pm
Yes but VAT is on "luxury goods" and Tax on alcohol is dependent on the percentage alcoholic content of the drink.
The boundaries have become blurred. All be it a reduced rate, VAT is charged on many things that can be deemed as non-luxury such as female sanitary goods, domestic gas and electric, services (for example a VAT registered plumber) pretty essential to get that leaking shower fixed, adult clothing and more besides.
Unfortunately we will have to pay for this virus outbreak and you can bet your bottom pound that beer prices will go up and up - sadly this could signal the demise of that great British Isles institution The Pub :cry:

Peirre
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by Peirre » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:26 pm

It seems the new scheme to support the self employed is based on profit declared on the 2018-19 tax year, but how many self employed deliberately try to spend as much as possible on new tools and vehicles before the end of the tax year so they don’t show a profit & have to pay tax on said profit? So if they intentionally declared a small profit they will only get 80% of that value under the scheme

steve the grease
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Ger Abergwaun
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Covid 19 and non-tax payers

Post by steve the grease » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:42 pm



My, non expert, advice to your friend would be to contact the tax office after Coronavirus is all over, explain his situation and ask for a deal. I did this many years ago: after I came back from travelling in my 20s I worked for cash for a while but decided I needed to get back into the system. They gave me an emergency tax number for a year or so and a bill for NI which I also payed over a year or so. They are very happy to welcome back tax payers into the system and therefore very helpful well at least they were in the 80s - circumstances may be similar now with high unemployment after Coronavirus.
Best wishes to him
My mate worked for ages as a builder then helping out a joiner. This was when he put his hand up inside a planer to clean it out and cut all the fingers off his right hand. This made pushing a barrow rather problematic ..... so he packed it in and got a job in the tax office!

He ended up being the 'Share Fishermans Telephone Helpline' for most of the UK!

He related that a typical conversation might go :
" Moi Missus reckons I been a roight Keuuuunt" ( not the way I'd start a conversation to a Govt agency, but hey)
" She reckons now the babbies come oi gotta sort out moi paypers"
" No oi aint never kept no recccrds loike".
And so on .....

He reckoned that his Boss said , "Just ignore what has happened in the past, you can't chase fresh air, just get them in the bloody system from now on".
Lets face it , in the past most of it probably went over a bar anyway , so tax, duty and VAT would end up being paid , albeit in a rather roundabout way.

So based on that and the fact that they are now working with much reduced numbers of staff I think your mate might well be OK. I think they are a bit busy at the moment to be prosecuting people.
Just my 3 pennorth.

Post Reply

Return to “THE PUB”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: clutchspring and 86 guests