Covid 19 Coronavirus

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Mad Hatter
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by Mad Hatter » Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:31 am

garyboy wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:32 pm
what i am saying is that lockdowns don't work
herd immunity won't work
and that the situation is now at the critical stage where this turning point of the contagion could become a catastrophe, but could, by adopting a different world strategy, be less disastrous than continuing with the failed accepted solutions.

Protect the vulnerable .. by age, medical condition, mentally struggling, or afeared, or even just lazy or opportunists .. by measures that the several hundred billions of pounds now already spent, could have made nearly viable. there could be blocks of flats dedicated to old gits and infirm (like wot i live in lol) policed by monitors locally. .. or even permanent lockdown areas containing nursing homes etc etc etc.

No testing, no tracing, no failed expensive apps, ..
Nightingale hospitals for covid only, clear the scandalous backlog of other medical emergencies etc etc etc
Big stores to reintroduce one way systems.

No thought of herd immunity, as it may be temporary anyway. .. just natural immunity helped by some gained immunity.

The point is that some people can resist the virus, and some set off an autoimmune response which is what kills victims ,,


So, let everyone not vulnerable continue as old normal ..... why? ... because the overall consequences are far far less than on the present course of `actions` which are devastating our health, wellbeing, economy, businesses, etc etc etc ..
Your first line says herd immunity won't work, then you continue on to spout a plan for herd immunity.

Yeah great some people will be ok let's let it run rampant and see how that goes, I know there's over 210,000 people in America that'll tell you it went absolutely swimmingly.

And clear the "scandalous backlog" in the NHS if you can find the extra staff needed to run it as normal with increased amount of people on sick leave because they're ending up with it, extra staff on the ITU's to deal with people with AND staff the nightingale hospitals you've said to use maybe you should run the NHS.

The lockdown did work, it worked everywhere that did one, it vastly reduced the infection rate and overall number of cases. What didn't work was letting people back out to be Muppets and go and spread it again.

Its not hard, wash your hands, dont go out if your not well, don't get to close to people and wear a mask. I feel like I'm going to need to start telling these lockdown doesn't do anything people that they shouldn't be licking strangers in the street soon.

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daveuprite
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by daveuprite » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:03 am

garyboy wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:32 pm
what i am saying is that lockdowns don't work
herd immunity won't work
and that the situation is now at the critical stage where this turning point of the contagion could become a catastrophe, but could, by adopting a different world strategy, be less disastrous than continuing with the failed accepted solutions.

Protect the vulnerable .. by age, medical condition, mentally struggling, or afeared, or even just lazy or opportunists .. by measures that the several hundred billions of pounds now already spent, could have made nearly viable. there could be blocks of flats dedicated to old gits and infirm (like wot i live in lol) policed by monitors locally. .. or even permanent lockdown areas containing nursing homes etc etc etc.

No testing, no tracing, no failed expensive apps, ..
Nightingale hospitals for covid only, clear the scandalous backlog of other medical emergencies etc etc etc
Big stores to reintroduce one way systems.

No thought of herd immunity, as it may be temporary anyway. .. just natural immunity helped by some gained immunity.

The point is that some people can resist the virus, and some set off an autoimmune response which is what kills victims ,,


So, let everyone not vulnerable continue as old normal ..... why? ... because the overall consequences are far far less than on the present course of `actions` which are devastating our health, wellbeing, economy, businesses, etc etc etc ..
Gary, what you've written here is full of internal contradictions and non sequitors. Just can't make sense of it. Where are you getting these ideas and what logic are using to link them together?

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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by garyboy » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:06 am

I believe the concept of herd immunity, is where the virus is allowed to run, then people build up an immunity within the `herd`, to protect them from future outbreaks, with the unfortunates getting dead, or treated and recover, thus leaving the majority protected.

I didnt say that, if you read my spouting correctly. :) :D 8-)

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garyboy
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by garyboy » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:09 am

I cannot see any contradictions in my piece? .. feel free to highlight or pick out the bits that are not getting through?

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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by garyboy » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:11 am

I am not talking about (developing) herd immunity .. i am talking about presenting a less catastrophic scenario, using the natural immunity of the majority of the population, on a voluntary basis where the risks are properly presented to them, while still protecting the vulnerable.

genuinely .. is that a hard concept?

.. bearing in mind that the world is about to enter a huge catastrophe through mishandling.


thousands upon thousands will die, either way .. but they already have, have'nt they, and this way the economy etc will survive?

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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by Mad Hatter » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:39 am

garyboy wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:11 am
I am not talking about (developing) herd immunity .. i am talking about presenting a less catastrophic scenario, using the natural immunity of the majority of the population, on a voluntary basis where the risks are properly presented to them, while still protecting the vulnerable.

genuinely .. is that a hard concept?

.. bearing in mind that the world is about to enter a huge catastrophe through mishandling.


thousands upon thousands will die, either way .. but they already have, have'nt they, and this way the economy etc will survive?
By letting the people that aren't extremely likely to die, just a little likely, to go about their lives "normally" you introduce the virus to a larger section of the population that is apparently ok with getting it, if its something you can't het twice then eventually the virus will more or less burn itself out. THIS IS HERD IMMUNITY!

Its not a hard concept and is what your proposing up thread.

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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by daveuprite » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:42 am

If you don't test, you don't have statistics or understanding of the virus and you don't find out who is vulnerable and whether anyone is developing immunity. Large scale testing is a vital prerequisite of either following a lockdown policy or a herd immunity policy, regardless of which method you believe works best.

Similarly if you don't trace you don't find out where the cases are, how seriously people are affected, what age they are, what their underlying health vulnerabilities are, what their habits are, where they have been recently, who they have met - the list goes on and on...

Evidence so far is that recovery from Covid is no guarantee of future immunity, casting even more doubt on ideas of herd or mass immunity (in the absence of a vaccine, that is)..

Foolproof identity of who is and who isn't vulnerable to covid is not currently possible.

Young people have died from Covid too, so letting the virus rip amongst the young is inherently flawed.

The national lockdowns did work. They prevented perhaps hundreds of thousands of deaths which were inevitable without contact prevention during a high spread period of R2-R3. When and how to come out of lockdown is another matter and the recent policy failures do not change the efficacy of the original lockdown.

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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by Mosel Bikes » Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:29 am

''The lockdown did work, it worked everywhere that did one, it vastly reduced the infection rate and overall number of cases. What didn't work was letting people back out to be Muppets and go and spread it again.''

Pretty much sums it up for me. This is what I saw every day in the UK. Why have other countries like Germany got fewer infections and deaths?
Fewer muppets, government and population.
Greyhound Racing .... don't bet, don't go - you bet, they die :cry:

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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by SteveR » Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:10 am

Tonibe63 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:08 am
You are promoting herd immunity as if it is a magic pill when actually we don't even know that such a utopia exists.
Rather than imprison our vulnerable for the remainder of their time on Earth we need a virus beating test system and a support scheme for those who test positive to make it economically viable for them to self isolate, basically the Government needs to do what they have promised.
"basically the Government needs to do what they have promised."

Well that'll be a first from this lot then.... :shock:

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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by lancashirelad » Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:00 pm

When the pubs reopened it should’ve been under the old opening hours 11-3 and 5-11 it’s all the pillocks still out on the town at 4am they loose all sense of responsibility the more pissed they get!! As I told one of the young lads at work when we were discussing it they didn’t invent shagging & drinking peoples been doing it for years only more subtle :D
KLX250 presently concentrating on not spending money on farkles and summoning up the courage to throw it at the scenery.

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