Covid 19 Coronavirus

[daveuprite]

Good quote from Marina Hyde:

The thing about Johnson is that he desperately wanted to become prime minister, and he desperately wanted to have been prime minister. It’s just the bit in between he struggles with.

[Jak*]

As usual JP sums it up rather well.

Cheers

[daveuprite]

"Oi mate, is this the way to Barnard Castle?"

[Hugh]

Greetings,

And so they continue.

Barnard.jpg (36.85 KiB) Viewed 2113 times

TTFN

Hugh.

[petecam]

Here is the problem. Does not matter if you are left or right or indifferent. Cummins was in the public eye and connected with the government who issued rules and guidelines. He bent/broke those rules.

I was just listing to the radio and people are angry as they made sacrifices and gone through difficult times only to see that someone in the public eye did not set an example. The people phoning and texting in were pretty much all saying they would now bend the rules for their own purposes and ignore the government. You could say “I don’t blame you” or you could say “that’s the wrong thing to do” but the fact remains this is how people are feeling.

If therefore we have another spike and they try to enforce another lockdown, I think people will tell them where to stick it and more people will die.

The government have lost control.

[daveuprite]

Here is the problem. Does not matter if you are left or right or indifferent. Cummins was in the public eye and connected with the government who issued rules and guidelines. He bent/broke those rules.

I was just listing to the radio and people are angry as they made sacrifices and gone through difficult times only to see that someone in the public eye did not set an example. The people phoning and texting in were pretty much all saying they would now bend the rules for their own purposes and ignore the government. You could say “I don’t blame you” or you could say “that’s the wrong thing to do” but the fact remains this is how people are feeling.

If therefore we have another spike and they try to enforce another lockdown, I think people will tell them where to stick it and more people will die.

The government have lost control.

Yes, agree that that is a very sad and likely outcome. But it's still a crazy one. You stick to the isolation/quarantine/distancing rules for your own benefit and for the benefit of wider society, not because you are told to do so by government representatives. Defying the lockdown "because Cummins did" is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The virus doesn't give a toss who spreads it and with what mistaken motive - it simply thrives on contact, groups meeting, travel and complacency.

OBVIOUSLY it would be much better that those in the public eye issuing the advice and rules were squeaky clean themselves in adhering to them, and as you say the Cummins hypocrisy contributes to all the other evidence of government failure on covid. But to say "I'll go and visit my family despite having symptoms because Cummins showed that it's OK", when you know perfectly well how stupid that would be, is madness.

[petecam]

Yes, agree that that is a very sad and likely outcome. But it's still a crazy one. You stick to the isolation/quarantine/distancing rules for your own benefit and for the benefit of wider society, not because you are told to do so by government representatives. Defying the lockdown "because Cummins did" is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The virus doesn't give a toss who spreads it and with what mistaken motive - it simply thrives on contact, groups meeting, travel and complacency.

OBVIOUSLY it would be much better that those in the public eye issuing the advice and rules were squeaky clean themselves in adhering to them, and as you say the Cummins hypocrisy contributes to all the other evidence of government failure on covid. But to say "I'll go and visit my family despite having symptoms because Cummins showed that it's OK", when you know perfectly well how stupid that would be, is madness.

Of course another way of viewing this would be that............Cummings has sat in on several SAGE meetings and attended countless meetings with the Chief Medical Officer, Chief Scientific Advisor et al, will have heard vastly more detail about the spread or potential for spreading the virus than nearly everyone else.

In possession of this knowledge, he deemed it appropriate to travel to Durham, taking into account his childcare circumstances (as he saw them) and still deemed it ok for his family to travel to Barnard Castle without putting them at risk.

If he doesn't think it was dangerous, why should Joe Public worry about the lockdown restrictions as Cummings knows better than the rest of us?

[daveuprite]

Yes, agree that that is a very sad and likely outcome. But it's still a crazy one. You stick to the isolation/quarantine/distancing rules for your own benefit and for the benefit of wider society, not because you are told to do so by government representatives. Defying the lockdown "because Cummins did" is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The virus doesn't give a toss who spreads it and with what mistaken motive - it simply thrives on contact, groups meeting, travel and complacency.

OBVIOUSLY it would be much better that those in the public eye issuing the advice and rules were squeaky clean themselves in adhering to them, and as you say the Cummins hypocrisy contributes to all the other evidence of government failure on covid. But to say "I'll go and visit my family despite having symptoms because Cummins showed that it's OK", when you know perfectly well how stupid that would be, is madness.

Of course another way of viewing this would be that............Cummings has sat in on several SAGE meetings and attended countless meetings with the Chief Medical Officer, Chief Scientific Advisor et al, will have heard vastly more detail about the spread or potential for spreading the virus than nearly everyone else.

In possession of this knowledge, he deemed it appropriate to travel to Durham, taking into account his childcare circumstances (as he saw them) and still deemed it ok for his family to travel to Barnard Castle without putting them at risk.

If he doesn't think it was dangerous, why should Joe Public worry about the lockdown restrictions as Cummings knows better than the rest of us?

That would be another reasonable way of looking at it, and it would be understandable if many took that view. Except that we know a fair bit about Dominic Cummins' history and his role. Brexit referendum, Johnson's election victory etc. He's a political strategist and a Machiavellian. His job was to navigate Brexit through the political minefield and more recently to get Johnson over the line. By his own words, he's interested in disruption and populism. He would not have been attending SAGE meetings to advance his scientific understanding of covid, but to be better informed on the political and public perception hurdles facing Johnson. That's what his million pound contract is for.

Remember he is the brains behind the figurehead. Johnson is vacuous, driven by personal ambition alone, with not an ounce of loyalty or higher moral purpose. A successful snake-oil salesman. Unlike even some other pretty bad prime-ministers he doesn't see the PM's job as fulfilling a public duty. It was about getting there, and now it's about staying there. Cummins' job is to keep him there by providing the ideas otherwise lacking in an empty premier. Which is why Johnson has defended him and stuck by him. It's not loyalty; it's necessity. He needs Cummins far more than the other way round. What's most shocking is that it even seems that Cummins is worth more to Johnson than the many thousands of lives that could be lost via a second wave of infection driven by the public's loss of trust in government advice resulting from the Cummins incident.

The only way Johnson could have come through this with any dignity was for him to sack Cummins instantly as soon as the story broke. Now that he has spent nearly a week defending him to the hilt, and sent cabinet ministers out to also do that for him, he is in too deep to back off. So he now has to ride out all the criticism, the public's lack of faith (some of which he still had until last weekend), and all the ridicule. Or sack him 6 days too late and look a total dick for delaying. An absurd and unnecessary conundrum of his own making. If anyone still believes after this that Johnson has any kind of political savvy left, they need their head examining.

[simonw]

<snip> disruption and populism. <snip>

Aren't they mutually exclusive, to an extent?

[garyboy]

It is with great regret and genuine sorrow that I have to agree with daveupright's latest post