Brexit finally happens

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daveuprite
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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by daveuprite » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:08 pm

qcnr wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:29 pm
Not really, as a non-EU citizen you will be subject to the normal visa regulations as all other non EU tourists, ie 90 days in 180.
Then the EU healthcards that give you entitlement to healthcare all over europe, no more.
If you own property within the EU, you can't live there without seeking residency in that country, etc
So I'm just going to get a Noggy passport. :D
Everything in this post is true. A fact.

NOT 'well let's see if that's the case' OR 'it probably won't be that bad' etc etc. It is the published, negotiated situation - and massively inferior to the current rights and freedoms enjoyed by those wanting to live and work in the EU. Those of us directly affected by this almighty abortion of brexit are aware of the issues. We have researched the changes and we are integrally engaged with how they alter our day-to-day life. We are not speculating, wondering or over pessimistic. We are realistic, well-informed and directly affected. In other words we are in the front line of the impact. The UK will follow but we are in the first trench.

It's so ironic that brexiters have decided to believe that leaving the EU gives them freedom, when it is the very freedoms conferred upon them by years of EU membership that they are about to lose.

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catcitrus
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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by catcitrus » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:20 pm

daveuprite wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:08 pm
qcnr wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:29 pm
Not really, as a non-EU citizen you will be subject to the normal visa regulations as all other non EU tourists, ie 90 days in 180.
Then the EU healthcards that give you entitlement to healthcare all over europe, no more.
If you own property within the EU, you can't live there without seeking residency in that country, etc
So I'm just going to get a Noggy passport. :D
Everything in this post is true. A fact.

NOT 'well let's see if that's the case' OR 'it probably won't be that bad' etc etc. It is the published, negotiated situation - and massively inferior to the current rights and freedoms enjoyed by those wanting to live and work in the EU. Those of us directly affected by this almighty abortion of brexit are aware of the issues. We have researched the changes and we are integrally engaged with how they alter our day-to-day life. We are not speculating, wondering or over pessimistic. We are realistic, well-informed and directly affected. In other words we are in the front line of the impact. The UK will follow but we are in the first trench.

It's so ironic that brexiters have decided to believe that leaving the EU gives them freedom, when it is the very freedoms conferred upon them by years of EU membership that they are about to lose.
you continue to A) moan on about your particular circumstances--which I'm sure that we all appreciate, but in the grand scheme of things is somewhat of a minor issue--which again I'm sure that you appreciate, and B) to assume that all brexiters, as you call them, are ill informed, misguided and mislead--and simply voted for "freedom"---you know what they say about assumption!--a somewhat arrogant approach to anyone that voted "for"--lets face it there were a few million from all walks of life.

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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by Jak* » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:00 pm

The problem that many of us who voted Remain have is that whilst we can see the disadvantages of voting leave ( for instance a recent article in Newsweek concluded that the consequences of voting leave have already cost the UK more than our contributions for the entire 47 years that we were members) it is very difficult to see the advantages for most of us. If some of the key exponents of Leave are to be believed these will not be forthcoming during the lifetime of the majority of those who voted to Leave. So far Johnson’s kowtowing to Trump does not inspire me with confidence. On the other hand the problems foisted on us by leaving the EU are likely to be insignificant compared to impact of climate change.
Cheers

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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by catcitrus » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:21 pm

We joined the "Common Market" in 1973--BUT NOT the European Union, which it has morphed into. I have no problem with the concept of a "common market"--and, as it was, it seemed to work extremely well. The problem is that it didn't stay like that and, as I've said, has become a "stealth " road to a federal Europe run by France and Germany--for their own gain!--we were, and would always have been, simply a cash cow because we were not part of the "Eurozone Club". Maybe some balance has been restored to the force.

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Asgard
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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by Asgard » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:37 am

It's so ironic that brexiters have decided to believe that leaving the EU gives them freedom, when it is the very freedoms conferred upon them by years of EU membership that they are about to lose.
Dave that is a completely false assumption, no socio-political system of government/control/legislation is capable of conferring freedoms of any sort, only of producing limitations to any freedoms that would allready exist in the absense of their control

The most free people in the world Exist in some remote Amazonian enclave, but not for long, they soon will be a victim of the control systems you seem so happy to have quide your path, systems which if you dig into them are all overseen by big business this includes your beloved EU

I am no fan of the UK Government and would even countinance that the EU has some better Ideas than our own national government , but I'm old and ugly enough to recognise that fighting one layer of control is hugely preferable to facing a tag team especially if the team member calling the shots doesnt even live in the same country as me or have the faintest understanding of its culture beyond the propoganda they read in their country's version of the Daily mail or studies they recieve on their desk from some pseudo-intellectual expert that just pens what they believe will further the cause and ensure the continuing circuitous travels of the gravy train they recently hitched a ride on

P.S. Your continuing attempts at insulting those who have different beliefs says more of yourself than of your targets
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daveuprite
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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by daveuprite » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:52 am

Asgard wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:37 am
It's so ironic that brexiters have decided to believe that leaving the EU gives them freedom, when it is the very freedoms conferred upon them by years of EU membership that they are about to lose.
Dave that is a completely false assumption, no socio-political system of government/control/legislation is capable of conferring freedoms of any sort, only of producing limitations to any freedoms that would allready exist in the absense of their control

The most free people in the world Exist in some remote Amazonian enclave, but not for long, they soon will be a victim of the control systems you seem so happy to have quide your path, systems which if you dig into them are all overseen by big business this includes your beloved EU

I am no fan of the UK Government and would even countinance that the EU has some better Ideas than our own national government , but I'm old and ugly enough to recognise that fighting one layer of control is hugely preferable to facing a tag team especially if the team member calling the shots doesnt even live in the same country as me or have the faintest understanding of its culture beyond the propoganda they read in their country's version of the Daily mail or studies they recieve on their desk from some pseudo-intellectual expert that just pens what they believe will further the cause and ensure the continuing circuitous travels of the gravy train they recently hitched a ride on

P.S. Your continuing attempts at insulting those who have different beliefs says more of yourself than of your targets
Your first point is obvious and unnecessary. We live in a very complex society, not a remote rainforest, so there have to be rules, and most importantly ways of cooperating with one another despite our differences. The EU is a way of organising a large number of different countries so that they work broadly together rather than at each others' throats (as often used to be the case).

You don't really want me to list all the EU freedoms that the UK is about to forego when it leaves, do you? You can look them up for yourself. It will only be once the UK has left and all the minor and sometimes major inconveniences of non-membership begin to be experienced by british people that they will privately reflect on what they have lost. Of course it's unlikely they will admit it, because that would require them to concede that they were wrong - which doesn't appear to be a brexiter characteristic.

And don't make me laugh with the accusation that I insult those with different beliefs to my own. Those of us who want to remain in the EU (still half the country, by the way!) are insulted daily in far worse ways by brexit-supporters who cannot defend their decision intellectually and routinely resort to abuse.

catcitrus
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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by catcitrus » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:13 am

daveuprite wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:52 am
Asgard wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:37 am
It's so ironic that brexiters have decided to believe that leaving the EU gives them freedom, when it is the very freedoms conferred upon them by years of EU membership that they are about to lose.
Dave that is a completely false assumption, no socio-political system of government/control/legislation is capable of conferring freedoms of any sort, only of producing limitations to any freedoms that would allready exist in the absense of their control

The most free people in the world Exist in some remote Amazonian enclave, but not for long, they soon will be a victim of the control systems you seem so happy to have quide your path, systems which if you dig into them are all overseen by big business this includes your beloved EU

I am no fan of the UK Government and would even countinance that the EU has some better Ideas than our own national government , but I'm old and ugly enough to recognise that fighting one layer of control is hugely preferable to facing a tag team especially if the team member calling the shots doesnt even live in the same country as me or have the faintest understanding of its culture beyond the propoganda they read in their country's version of the Daily mail or studies they recieve on their desk from some pseudo-intellectual expert that just pens what they believe will further the cause and ensure the continuing circuitous travels of the gravy train they recently hitched a ride on

P.S. Your continuing attempts at insulting those who have different beliefs says more of yourself than of your targets
Your first point is obvious and unnecessary. We live in a very complex society, not a remote rainforest, so there have to be rules, and most importantly ways of cooperating with one another despite our differences. The EU is a way of organising a large number of different countries so that they work broadly together rather than at each others' throats (as often used to be the case).

You don't really want me to list all the EU freedoms that the UK is about to forego when it leaves, do you? You can look them up for yourself. It will only be once the UK has left and all the minor and sometimes major inconveniences of non-membership begin to be experienced by british people that they will privately reflect on what they have lost. Of course it's unlikely they will admit it, because that would require them to concede that they were wrong - which doesn't appear to be a brexiter characteristic.

And don't make me laugh with the accusation that I insult those with different beliefs to my own. Those of us who want to remain in the EU (still half the country, by the way!) are insulted daily in far worse ways by brexit-supporters who cannot defend their decision intellectually and routinely resort to abuse.
I agree with Asgard--a balanced approach---give up still trying to win your "argument" by insulting everyone that voted leave when you have already left. Let the rest of us try and UNITE and MOVE ON, and make the best attempt at making us more independent--it will take time no doubt, and may well be a bit painful (I reckon most "leavers" recognised this)--but we must look to the future--lets face it we were treading water as an outsider in a fading Federal experiment. Stop whinging about what has gone and assuming that we will regret it and don't be smug about anything that potentially doesn't work too well by saying "I told you so".

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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by garyboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm

.... and .. don't feed the troll ..

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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by garyboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:51 pm

a lady recently spent £20,000 to prevent her neighbour feeding her beloved CAT ..
a lady last year got part eaten in a zoo for trying to clean the cage and feed the LIONS ..
a gentleman (me) when trying to feed the birds, attracted a fox, magpies, and RATS ..
people in the UK parks caused the deaths of thousands of water birds, by listening to the silly advice of,, `don't feed the DUCKS` ..
but trolls live under a Eurotunnel, and in a yellow submarine below the ferries, and like to make your life hell when you want to have a good holiday ..
so don't feed the TROLLS. :lol:

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Re: Brexit finally happens

Post by Jak* » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:11 pm

I am sorry but I suspect that those who voted Leave are going to hear the words ‘I told you so’ a lot in the coming months and years. It will not take long for some to realise what they have lost, although others will say that the cost is worth it. It also will not take that long for many people to realise that they have been conned, although again most won’t believe it and will blame remainers, the EU etc.
The jingoistic bollocks of trying to get Big Ben to chime, seems like a metaphor for the whole sorry situation. A vast waste of money, for a ill conceived plan, that may not come to anything and is of no real benefit to anyone. Still I suppose it all stops people thinking about the dire state the country is in after ten years of destructive Tory rule.
Cheers

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