eBikes next

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Richard Simpson Mark II
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Re: eBikes next

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:20 pm

Article is here

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -bfr7rkz96


but there is a paywall.

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Richard Simpson Mark II
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Re: eBikes next

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:27 pm

The authorities seem to only have a very poor knowledge of rights of way...cycles (even pedal cycles) can only go on restricted byways, byways open to all traffic and bridleways. It's already an offence to ride on footpaths or open land...although many MTB forums actively promote 'cheeky rides', or law-breaking.

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Re: eBikes next

Post by Cone » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:33 pm

I love riding my ebike. Go out with large numbers of people, it’s almost more fun than off roaring. I guess that makes me an law breaker!!

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Re: eBikes next

Post by Hugh » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:37 pm

Greetings,

In the Macclesfield area there was reported problems of mountain bikers and e-bikers on various footpaths so what did the Authorities do - opened up those area as a designated set of routes for them !!!!

What do they do towards motorised users - close down routes, complain that those left open are over used, so another route gets closed by TRO.

I think that system used to be called "Catch 22".

TTFN

Hugh.

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Re: eBikes next

Post by Zookman » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:04 pm

Richard Simpson Mark II wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:20 pm
Article is here

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -bfr7rkz96


but there is a paywall.
I dont subscribe to The Times online, so i can only read the first part and watch the vid....
It seems to me thats its not the National Parks that want ebikes classed as motorcycles, but just says 'critics'. There are always people that will criticize anything and everything.
The National Parks seem to just want ebikers to stay on the designated paths & tracks, which seems fair enough to me. Us ebikers have a hell of a lot more freedom on where we can go compared to off road motorcycles. Its the reason i only go offroad with ebikes nowadays.

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Re: eBikes next

Post by Mike54 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:42 pm

DavidS wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:26 pm
Zookman wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:41 pm
DavidS wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:35 pm
I’m not sure I’m against the idea to be honest.
Silent but probably faster than anything else using the routes has to end in tears at some point.
Was always going to be inevitable.
Legal pedelecs aren't fast at all, the motor cuts out at 15.5 mph.
But that could be 15mph uphill, presumably, which no-one would be expecting. Not so bad in big open spaces but our narrow hedge lined footpaths aren’t wide enough for silent speed differences...probably safer with an engine to hear coming. That said, when we do horse trials, you can sit 6” behind people and they have no idea you’re there.
It’s a shame where it lets less mobile people get access but any powered assistance is going to fall into the antis hands.
Nonsense. Steep hill, rocky etc, there's no chance of 15mph. All this is utterly pathetic and ebikes are a great health benefit if you don't want a traditional bike

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Re: eBikes next

Post by daveuprite » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:56 am

I can't quite believe the state of affairs in the UK re. access to the countryside. So many complicated restrictions, multiple rival groups and warring parties. Everyone seems to revel in hating each other, leading to battles between horse riders, cyclist, off-roaders and ramblers. The hostility is extraordinary.

Here in France everyone seems to live and let live. When we go greenlaning on the enduro bikes we are greeted with friendly waves from walkers, and when we shut off the engines for a horse we get the same acknowledgement that we all have a right to share the chemins (pathways/trails) and respect each other. And people often switch between modes; an MTB cyclist will often have a motorbike at home, or in my own case I do horses as well as bikes. So there is a mutual understanding of why we are all out there and what we need others to remember when we meet.

There are no equivalents to BOATS , Byways or whatever. There's just a huge sprawling network of paths, open to the public, sometimes signed and organised but most often just trails used by farmers, walkers and the rest. The local communes clear them occasionally and farmers sometimes graze them clear with sheep. They can be fenced off (often for that reason), but I've never encountered anybody objecting to us just opening and reclosing the gate/fence.

Perhaps the essential difference is the pressure on the trails in the UK from so many people wanting to use the same paths. We very often do 4 or 5 hours of riding in France without meeting a soul, and from what I've read (I'm 12 years out of date in terms of personal experience) that would be rare in the UK these days.

Very happy to stand corrected, but it just seems such a sad, conflicting mess of intolerance and ill will.

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Re: eBikes next

Post by DaveCon » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:05 am

It's just another attempt to get everybody except walkers off the National Parks. If they are going to ban eMTB's for this reason then they will have to ban all Mountain Bikes. I'm only quicker on my eMTB going uphill bet even then I'm far from 15mph, more like 6 or 7. Everywhere else I'm just as quick on my normal bike. I can also go a lot further on my eMTB before I've had enough but that's about the only difference.

I couldn't read the full article but complaining someone has a radio too loud so ban all eMTB's just shows their ignorance. You could have a radio on anything, even a horse and I'm pretty sure they're not electric powered.

Just about everybody I meet on the hills and towpaths are polite, friendly and often interested in my bike. They control their dogs and give me room and from my end I slow down and often stop until I'm clear. I have a bell and use it a lot which people seem to appreciate. It's really not a problem in my experience (I did over 2,000 miles last year the vast majority on bridleways, boats, green lanes, towpaths etc etc).

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Re: eBikes next

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:26 pm

daveuprite wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:56 am
I can't quite believe the state of affairs in the UK re. access to the countryside. So many complicated restrictions, multiple rival groups and warring parties. Everyone seems to revel in hating each other, leading to battles between horse riders, cyclist, off-roaders and ramblers. The hostility is extraordinary.

Here in France everyone seems to live and let live. When we go greenlaning on the enduro bikes we are greeted with friendly waves from walkers, and when we shut off the engines for a horse we get the same acknowledgement that we all have a right to share the chemins (pathways/trails) and respect each other. And people often switch between modes; an MTB cyclist will often have a motorbike at home, or in my own case I do horses as well as bikes. So there is a mutual understanding of why we are all out there and what we need others to remember when we meet.

There are no equivalents to BOATS , Byways or whatever. There's just a huge sprawling network of paths, open to the public, sometimes signed and organised but most often just trails used by farmers, walkers and the rest. The local communes clear them occasionally and farmers sometimes graze them clear with sheep. They can be fenced off (often for that reason), but I've never encountered anybody objecting to us just opening and reclosing the gate/fence.

Perhaps the essential difference is the pressure on the trails in the UK from so many people wanting to use the same paths. We very often do 4 or 5 hours of riding in France without meeting a soul, and from what I've read (I'm 12 years out of date in terms of personal experience) that would be rare in the UK these days.

Very happy to stand corrected, but it just seems such a sad, conflicting mess of intolerance and ill will.

It's because organisations like the NPAs try to cram in as many people as possible to experience 'tranquility'. The NPs have contradictory aims as places where the countryside is preserved, but for recreational purposes. Similarly 'challenge routes' like the Pennine Way, Ridgeway etc are marketed to a point where they are effectively destroyed.
France has far more land than the UK, and a sparse rural population. The UK countryside is increasingly built over to accommodate 'white flight' from the big cities

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Re: eBikes next

Post by daveuprite » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:27 pm

Richard Simpson Mark II wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:26 pm
daveuprite wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:56 am
I can't quite believe the state of affairs in the UK re. access to the countryside. So many complicated restrictions, multiple rival groups and warring parties. Everyone seems to revel in hating each other, leading to battles between horse riders, cyclist, off-roaders and ramblers. The hostility is extraordinary.

Here in France everyone seems to live and let live. When we go greenlaning on the enduro bikes we are greeted with friendly waves from walkers, and when we shut off the engines for a horse we get the same acknowledgement that we all have a right to share the chemins (pathways/trails) and respect each other. And people often switch between modes; an MTB cyclist will often have a motorbike at home, or in my own case I do horses as well as bikes. So there is a mutual understanding of why we are all out there and what we need others to remember when we meet.

There are no equivalents to BOATS , Byways or whatever. There's just a huge sprawling network of paths, open to the public, sometimes signed and organised but most often just trails used by farmers, walkers and the rest. The local communes clear them occasionally and farmers sometimes graze them clear with sheep. They can be fenced off (often for that reason), but I've never encountered anybody objecting to us just opening and reclosing the gate/fence.

Perhaps the essential difference is the pressure on the trails in the UK from so many people wanting to use the same paths. We very often do 4 or 5 hours of riding in France without meeting a soul, and from what I've read (I'm 12 years out of date in terms of personal experience) that would be rare in the UK these days.

Very happy to stand corrected, but it just seems such a sad, conflicting mess of intolerance and ill will.

It's because organisations like the NPAs try to cram in as many people as possible to experience 'tranquility'. The NPs have contradictory aims as places where the countryside is preserved, but for recreational purposes. Similarly 'challenge routes' like the Pennine Way, Ridgeway etc are marketed to a point where they are effectively destroyed.
France has far more land than the UK, and a sparse rural population. The UK countryside is increasingly built over to accommodate 'white flight' from the big cities
Yeah, I see all that. France has almost exactly the same population as the UK, but on over twice the land area. That has to be a factor. But if one imagined for a moment that double or even triple the number of french people were out enjoying the countryside as is the case now, it would still be hard to imagine that that would produce the hostility between entrenched groups that you seem to get in the UK. I think it's more about attitude than just numbers. There's probably some excellent research on this somewhere. Need to take a look.

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