One year on was it worth it?

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Seminole
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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Seminole » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:03 am

Firstly it's 21k and the payback is only 9% of the earnings above that 21k.
if it's not paid after 30 years the remaining amount is written off.
Hardly a major encumberence for those that actually pay and the latest estimates from the Institute for Fiscal Studies is that 70% wont complete payback
In reality as governments change, I suspect rules to change an even more will be let off paying when the reality strikes that they can't/won't anyway.

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Gedge » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:13 am

anagallis_arvensis wrote:
The oft-quoted intelligent young graduates, who Jezzer is currently currying favour with - have generally been on the receipt of state support all their lives (not blaming them for that)
Whilst being 50k in debt following university whilst the older generation got it all free followed by a job for life
Would that be the older generation where only a tiny % got the chance to go to Uni, and so started work at 16 ( paying tax straight away) ...the same generation that actually ended up paying huge amounts for their own children to attend Uni that wont see a penny of the returned either by their kids or the government....education and opportunity costs...nobody holds a gun to anyones head to make them either go to Uni or to accept a student loan...paying it back is a small price to pay for the opportunity as borne out by the numbers of non EU students that willingly pay to study and get a uk degree...

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One year on was it worth it?

Post by johnnyboxer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:22 am

daveuprite wrote:
DavidS wrote:
Oddly enough leave and remain voters are probably as intelligent as each other. It's just that each side sees the future in a different way.
Not borne out by the research I'm afraid. There is a strong correlation between level of educational attainment and likelihood to vote remain or leave. Although other factors overlap (age, class, ethnicity etc), there is a statistically significant correlation between tendency to vote leave and lower level of education. Of course 'intelligence' is a slightly different concept, although those with a higher level of education do tend to pass conventional tests of intelligence with higher scores, as you might expect.

http://www.populus.co.uk/2016/05/brexit ... upporters/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... ed-old-an/
Interesting statistics and theories
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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Philiptigerrice » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:55 am

Lebowski - you missed my point.

The package Regs may or may not have come about from an EU Directive - (A year before the Maastrict Treaty?) its not really relevant but I'm happy to be corrected if wrong....



What is relevant is the fact that all of the other EU Regs on Pool Design, Maintenance, Health and Safety etc etc ad nauseum, weren't followed, in a resort that was built 7 years after full EU Membership, in a Resort that was made possible by EU funding, that boasts of its EU standards.

There's a bloody big difference between rights, and responsibilities.

What we came across, in this one small incident, was a dynamic whereby the Region we were in were enjoying ALL of the Rights of EU Membership - and taking almost NONE of the responsibilities.

We saw it at the airport that was paid for by the EU.
We saw it in the pool design where the lawfully required standards were ignored.
We saw it in the lack of inspections - that got signed off without being done.
We saw it in the maintenance that was legally required and not done.
We saw it in the lack of any trained first aiders or first aid kits they are required to have.
We saw it in the flawed construction standards that were never met, but got signed off.
We saw it in the ambulance where the E111 Card was ignored and cash taken from us before we could get of the ambulance.(Because, thats not how we do things here)
We saw it in the bill for the X-Rays that we shouldn't have had to pay.
We see it in the way that the insurers took our money and can fuck us off knowing that we can't touch them, because they are based in Spain and the EU law offers us no support.
We saw it out of the window of the hospital, looking at the dusty unworked foundations of a new hospital, gone to ruin because all the EU money was long since siphoned off and the works abandoned, to the open shame of the locals.


So - I don't really care where the one useful piece of legislation came from - because the one Regulation that does offer us some hope, ironically is designed to leave the responsibility in the UK.

And its designed that way BECAUSE we can't trust some nations to meet their responsibilities.

I actually feel a little sorry for our Tour Operator - I expect that they did request all of the correct docs and inspection reports - but they were all falsified. They used the resort in good faith - but because the 1992 Regs are their to protect me - the UK operator is the Duty Holder - because if they weren't - I'd get nowhere. When they have settled, probably out of court as the case is indefensible - they will then start the arduous task of countersuing the resort. Thats not come about because our EU neighbours are amazing has it? Its come about precisely because - they do things differently.

Which is fine.

But its why the whole show was never going to work once it was expanded outside of the major western nations.



At every step of a shitty journey - everyone we were meeting were taking money from the EU, and not meeting ANY of their responsibilities - and it could have cost my daughter her life.



They have the new airport, roads, and resorts - they all got finished - they bring the money in.

The hospital - well, it doesn't make any tourist money - so they didn't bother with that.

Thats my point - thats my complaint - and our story highlights one of the biggest issues a lot of us have with the EU.

They pour billions of Euros into areas with no come back on whether they're actually meeting their half of the bargain - they aren't!
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anagallis_arvensis
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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by anagallis_arvensis » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:21 am

Hardly a major encumberence for those that actually pay and the latest estimates from the Institute for Fiscal Studies is that 70% wont complete payback
Thats easy for you to say!! But they are also having to save for a mortgage that could be at least 5x salary too, whilst maybe thinking of starting a family and looking at £60 a day childcare costs as the wife has to work to let them afford a home...if not they can just pay a massive rent to some baby boomer who bought their house off the back of a get rich quick xouncil house buy out and then bought another one to rent out.

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by anagallis_arvensis » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:23 am


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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by jonny955 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:12 am

anagallis_arvensis wrote:
Hardly a major encumberence for those that actually pay and the latest estimates from the Institute for Fiscal Studies is that 70% wont complete payback
Thats easy for you to say!! But they are also having to save for a mortgage that could be at least 5x salary too, whilst maybe thinking of starting a family and looking at £60 a day childcare costs as the wife has to work to let them afford a home...if not they can just pay a massive rent to some baby boomer who bought their house off the back of a get rich quick xouncil house buy out and then bought another one to rent out.
And all that happened during our membership of the EU!

Of course, I'm not suggesting the EU caused this but it's clear that we don't have a fair society at the moment with the divide between rich and poor increasing. This prompted many to vote leave, rightly or wrongly.

Jon.

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Seminole » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:43 am

anagallis_arvensis wrote:
Hardly a major encumberence for those that actually pay and the latest estimates from the Institute for Fiscal Studies is that 70% wont complete payback
Thats easy for you to say!! But they are also having to save for a mortgage that could be at least 5x salary too, whilst maybe thinking of starting a family and looking at £60 a day childcare costs as the wife has to work to let them afford a home...if not they can just pay a massive rent to some baby boomer who bought their house off the back of a get rich quick xouncil house buy out and then bought another one to rent out.
Expectations are too high, when I was in my 20's I had no vehicle, lived in rented accomodation and worked hard thereafter to get what I have now.
Today, kids have cars sometimes before they live school, 500 quid phones and ipads, but are constantly moaning of they don't have a mortgage by 25.

Parents need to step up and start teaching kids again that you get nothing for nothing and sometimes sacrifices are required to get the really important stuff like a house sorted.

Telling them when they are under achieving instead of this culture of making excuses for them and telling everyone they have it worse than previous generations (a modern myth), would improve matters greatly.

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Philiptigerrice » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:31 pm

Seminole - you absolutely totally miss the point here.


A few kids might have cheap cars - so what - most don't - and lets not forget - it can cost you THOUSANDS a year, to buy a season ticket for public transport now.

Most have phones, because frankly, its difficult to function without one these days.


My parents got a free education, earned good wages, had decent pension packages, retired at 58 & 60.

My parents got a mortgage that was three times just my Dads salary (he was a Copper). He saved for a year for the deposit. (Mum worked part time - but then quit to be a wife and mum)

The house they bought for £13,000 is now worth a third of a million.

For a Copper to buy that now, he'd have to have no car, no food, no phone, no electric, no rent, no wife and no kids, no nothing - for a year - or he could live in a shitty flat, paying off his £50k student loan and wishing he could afford to get married and have kids.

My parents look around and say they worked hard for what they have.


No they didn't! Its a lie.

The housing market generated all their wealth - they didn't work any harder than anyone nowadays - they just had the good fortune to be baby boomers - they did it all pretty much debt free.

Thats just not possible these days - because their generation set it up that way.


I've absolutely no idea how my kids will ever buy houses without my help. No idea at all.



If my mum and Dad were both 22 years old now - they'd have a joint income of around £40k a year.

There's NO way on earth they could achieve now, what they did then.
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Seminole
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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Seminole » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:04 pm

Your right about one thing, the way they are mollycoddled, todays kidults will achieve little

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