One year on was it worth it?

[lebowski]

the NHS is in a mess,nothing to do with all the extra patients I suppose?

I Was born and bred in Wakefield, a city that used to have 5 hospitals, but through both Labour and Conservative governments, now only has 1. How can it cope? It can't.

This government agrees with a report that says NHS buildings should be sold off.....

How on earth will that make things better?

Hopefully she won't have a big enough majority to force that through!

[STRATARIDER]

Do I need a cpc for a ccm if I'm in abr, trf, or should I stick with an XT ? Whilst we are in the EU . :whistle:

Stick with an XT.

[micksea]

So who is going to make Britain great again...?

Certainly it won't be those that constantly talk the UK down and don't even live here.

Realists you mean?

Or dreamers?

I constantly read how leaving the EU will make Britain great again, but nobody seems to be able to come up with examples of ways of doing that.

I would love to talk the UK up, but I don't have anything to talk up. I left because I could have a better standard of living, wouldn't you do the same? Or should I have suffered further for the good of my country who now has a government who, clearly, don't give a stuff about me or a lot of the British public.

The UK is a country currently being run for the good of very rich people, not everyone, should I be proud of that then?

So while we were in Europe (I know we still are)you suffered so badly in this country that you felt you had no option but to leave? Now you want the rest of us to keep suffering to maintain your utopia.the NHS is in a mess,nothing to do with all the extra patients I suppose? State pension pot is empty,nothing to do with all the extra social care for the extra people? 1.5 million expats living abroad,it's OK we've got at least twice that many living here.all our problems are not caused by foreigners living here but by our own government beating us down with the euro stick,that's what we voted against when we voted to leave.

Wow, really?

Did I say I had no option? I left to improve my standard of living. I paid into the system for more than 30 years, hardly ever used the NHS, paid my NI and taxes. I worked very hard throughout my whole working life to be able to retire early, is that not ok? I will claim my pension, why not?

Am I not allowed to leave and get a better life for myself and my family, having worked hard and paid into the system for years?

Please explain how you, or anyone else is suffering to maintain my 'utopia'?

I agree we let too many people into the UK, freedom of movement was never going to work for the UK, its a small island! The UK didn't have to allow EU nationals to access benefits until they contributed to the system. I have no proof that they did, do you?

You think that the pension pot is dry because of EU nationals coming into the UK? Don't these people pay tax then? Don't they contribute to the system in exactly the same way I did and still do, incidentally?

How is the Government beating you down with the euro stick? Come to think of it, what is a euro stick?

I'd love to hear your reasoned answers to my questions.

Using the same reasoning as your good self..,..can you prove that the government doesn't care about you? Which government employee told told you this? Have you got an audio recording? Did they give you a letter? Can you prove it?

[AlanHolt]

the NHS is in a mess,nothing to do with all the extra patients I suppose?

I Was born and bred in Wakefield, a city that used to have 5 hospitals, but through both Labour and Conservative governments, now only has 1. How can it cope? It can't.

This government agrees with a report that says NHS buildings should be sold off.....

How on earth will that make things better?

Hopefully she won't have a big enough majority to force that through!

Profit before people, every time.

[Philiptigerrice]

And yet it was Labour - The Saviours of The NHS - who pi$$ed £12BILLION up the wall on a single IT project (which never worked and was scrapped)

It was Labour who created Foundation Trusts - which sounds nice - but THAT was the moment the NHS was privatised - it wasn't the Tories at all (not that they have a much better record).

Nor was it the Tories who set up the PFI funding of all new builds - which is a bit like taking out a mortgage with Wonga.com


The only difference between Labour and The Tories on the NHS - is that the Labour Partys PR Team has managed to do a better job and claim the moral high ground which they have no right too be sitting on.


The foundation Status allowed Trusts to buy and sell work from the private sector. At first it was - ooh the waiting lists for knee replacements is too long - lets sell that work to BUPA. Seemed sensible.

Then they realised that the SHA's would pay, for example £150,000 for a Scoliosis procedure. There's money in that - its a 15 hour operation - and the patient can be home in 48 hours - there's profit in it. However - the little old ladies, who need 3 weeks in hospital - there's no money in that.

But there's money in Opthalmic Surgery - so loads of Trusts built little eye hospitals - and within 3 years there was no waiting lists for cataracts in the UK - it was a success for some people. Except the money generated didn't goto doubling the staff in A&E - it went to pay the interest on the PFI contracts.

So now you see wealthier positioned Trusts, taking over other local hospitals - selling off the loss making services - and retaining the quick turn over minimum stay work.

You see Manchester Kids Hospital - looks all shiney and new- but the kids are fed on a budget of £1.80 a day. They pick food off a menu - it gets cooked in Wales overnight - then brought in big freezer vans to the back of the building - it goes into the Regeneration room (the only kitchens there belong to Subway Sandwiches, who pay rent) The regenerated bloody mush, then goes on warm carts- some 24 hours after being cooked - and is deleivered to sick kids, who can't eat the crap they serve them. So the parents then goto Subway and buy food there... And worse - when it gets really bad - when they're on chemo, as my son was - you end up needing nutritional support - at £475 a day. Sums it up nicely, right?

At the Kids Hospital - if you can drive a wheelchair - you take your own kids to X-Ray and CT Scans - because the ward has to pay Sodhexo £75 for a Porter to come and take the kiddy.

But it wasn't the Tories who kicked it off. It was Foundation Trusts and PFI Funding.

Its why my vasectomy was done in a mobile clinic in a Car Park in Bolton! :woohoo:

The SHA put a bidding process out (years ago) and Care-UK won the tender. The NHS Trusts didn't even other bidding for it - it wasn't worth the money to them.

It was all privatised yyeeaarrssss ago. But nobody noticed. :pinch:

And now its too late.



Don't get me wrong - I sound one sided on this - I don't mean to be.

But whenever you read in the papers or on Facetube, that Labour will save the NHS - and the Tories have sold it - know this - it was the Labour Party who privatised it - the Tories just agreed with them.

They're both horrific with the NHS.

The NHS is long gone.

[lebowski]

So who is going to make Britain great again...?

Certainly it won't be those that constantly talk the UK down and don't even live here.

Realists you mean?

Or dreamers?

I constantly read how leaving the EU will make Britain great again, but nobody seems to be able to come up with examples of ways of doing that.

I would love to talk the UK up, but I don't have anything to talk up. I left because I could have a better standard of living, wouldn't you do the same? Or should I have suffered further for the good of my country who now has a government who, clearly, don't give a stuff about me or a lot of the British public.

The UK is a country currently being run for the good of very rich people, not everyone, should I be proud of that then?

So while we were in Europe (I know we still are)you suffered so badly in this country that you felt you had no option but to leave? Now you want the rest of us to keep suffering to maintain your utopia.the NHS is in a mess,nothing to do with all the extra patients I suppose? State pension pot is empty,nothing to do with all the extra social care for the extra people? 1.5 million expats living abroad,it's OK we've got at least twice that many living here.all our problems are not caused by foreigners living here but by our own government beating us down with the euro stick,that's what we voted against when we voted to leave.

Wow, really?

Did I say I had no option? I left to improve my standard of living. I paid into the system for more than 30 years, hardly ever used the NHS, paid my NI and taxes. I worked very hard throughout my whole working life to be able to retire early, is that not ok? I will claim my pension, why not?

Am I not allowed to leave and get a better life for myself and my family, having worked hard and paid into the system for years?

Please explain how you, or anyone else is suffering to maintain my 'utopia'?

I agree we let too many people into the UK, freedom of movement was never going to work for the UK, its a small island! The UK didn't have to allow EU nationals to access benefits until they contributed to the system. I have no proof that they did, do you?

You think that the pension pot is dry because of EU nationals coming into the UK? Don't these people pay tax then? Don't they contribute to the system in exactly the same way I did and still do, incidentally?

How is the Government beating you down with the euro stick? Come to think of it, what is a euro stick?

I'd love to hear your reasoned answers to my questions.

Using the same reasoning as your good self..,..can you prove that the government doesn't care about you? Which government employee told told you this? Have you got an audio recording? Did they give you a letter? Can you prove it?

I take it you aren't going to answer my questions then?

Funny, how you can make comments and then not back them up but you expect others to.

In answer to your questions, Theresa May certainly doesn't care about me, in her offer to the EU over citizens rights, she made no attempt to answer the EU's offer protecting all the expats, she made one that left us all not only confused, but worse off!

Unfortunately I didn't get an audio recording of this conversation, as I wasn't expecting to have to prove it to you, but a government official at the DWP told me that the government doesn't care about providing evidence for me to join the health service in France. Quote 'the French don't know what they're doing, so we won't help you' I simply asked for a letter saying I wasn't entitled to a state pension at age 55. Strangely, I didn't ask her to put it in writing, but as the Inland Revenue don't want to send me a tax summary, if I have to speak to them again I will ask them if I can record it and if they would then sign a transcript of the conversation. Is that ok?

You seem to be very defensive and yet slightly aggressive toward me? Why do you feel the need to do this? I have my opinions, you have yours. I am genuinely interested in how the UK is going to survive once they leave the EU. I have a vested interest in the process. When I ask a reasonable question you don't seem willing to provide the answer. Surely you considered these issues before you voted?

It would seem that some people feel that as I exercised my rights (at the time) and moved abroad I am not allowed my opinions and views. Why?

Anyway, back to you, can you now answer, or at least give your opinions on my questions please?

[micksea]

Of course I can answer your question?

[AlanHolt]

And now theres talk of a Irexit

[interceptor]

And now theres talk of a Irexit

Yeah, that'll never happen. Ireland won't jump ship when it's obvious that the UK, a vastly wealthier country hasn't a solid plan to exit the EU. Our agriculture industry will be seriously damaged no matter what sort of Brexit there is, but our trade with the EU and the US are a much more significant proportion of our GDP and the agri sector will realign itself and find new opportunities.

[Redmurty]

Ireland exports 2/3rds of all exports to the UK not the EU we are by far Irelands biggest market.
Of course this may be another reason :whistle:
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 15450.html
Ireland has already informed the EU that it must give the UK a reasonable deal as a bad one would cost Ireland 40k jobs and would put them back to a position of being a net receiver and would require some serious EU assistance
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 20401.html
you also need to have a look at what is going on in Sweden and Denmark with regards to migrant issues
Cheers Spud