One year on was it worth it?

[SteveR]

Still I am looking forward to the next issue of Private Eye.
Cheers Jak

Last edition was "entertaining".... Or depressing, depending on your outlook :dry:

[WIBO]

The people voted......we're leaving....there you have it.

We'll do OK as the rest of the world does OK dealing with other countries ... Switzerland seems to be just fine and is not in the EC, and it's positioned in the middle of Europe too.....they say customs papers these days are well sorted via IT before products even get off the boats........customs staff carry out what checks they feel necessary thereafter. There you have it.


Perspective..........Look at the map to see how insignificant the UK looks, let alone Europe :whistle: :whistle:


Some people, looking in from the outside,might think the UK is actually important in the grand scheme of things let alone Europe......look at Ireland... a grain of rice in the world scheme of things....but are there enough outside of the UK who really take that view ?

Anyway......we are exiting .......and can strike up those better trade deals etc with the more significant countries?



Upsidedown Map Of The World--Optimized by gasgasohlins, on Flickr

[Andi_Archer]

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-bri ... VcI5YTyvs1

Called the AuthaGraph, the result is a map that looks a little different that most of us are used to. Seen in rectangular form, Antarctica is intact and at the bottom right.

The Americas and Africa are tilted inward and pushed to the upper corners of the map, while Australia sits perfectly upright at the bottom center. The lines of latitude and longitude veer in odd directions, the result of transformations that broke them from their naturally spherical configuration. Most importantly, the continents are all rendered as they actually appear. Africa has regained its geographic primacy while North America and Europe are shrunk back to their true sizes. The oceans, too, are finally represented accurately. By breaking longstanding rules governing how the continents and lines of latitude and longitude should appear, Narukawa has achieved a geographically accurate depiction of Earth.

[Simon_100]

Sounds great...will Brexit be the end of it for you, or is it too early to tell?

Theres no way to know at the moment. The UK may remain, despite the referendum result. Look at the manifesto u-turns from the Conservatives since the general election. Even if the UK was to suffer a hard Brexit, I think the Spanish would allow property owners to remain, otherwise there would be a property crash. Very few expats rent here, almost all have bought somewhere.

Er, Alan, I'm not knocking your comment but your "there would be a property crash" is a conditional future. There is a property crash, even with a predicted 20% reduction 2017 will end with 315,000 unsold new properties - and they're still building more! - non-one knows how many 'second hand' homes are out there empty and effectively unsellable - including your farm, sadly, unless you find another Brit to sell it to, which now seems unlikely to say the least.

Regs

Simon

[AlanHolt]

That isn't what we're seeing inland, prices have either stabilised or risen slightly in the past 2-3 years. There are fewer properties on the market here, and there has been an increased interest in property, particularly from Dutch and Germans. Town houses and apartments aren't doing as well, it seems people want space and land over convenience.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

The people voted......we're leaving....there you have it.

We'll do OK as the rest of the world does OK dealing with other countries ... Switzerland seems to be just fine and is not in the EC, and it's positioned in the middle of Europe too.....they say customs papers these days are well sorted via IT before products even get off the boats........customs staff carry out what checks they feel necessary thereafter. There you have it.


Perspective..........Look at the map to see how insignificant the UK looks, let alone Europe :whistle: :whistle:


Some people, looking in from the outside,might think the UK is actually important in the grand scheme of things let alone Europe......look at Ireland... a grain of rice in the world scheme of things....but are there enough outside of the UK who really take that view ?

Anyway......we are exiting .......and can strike up those better trade deals etc with the more significant countries?



Upsidedown Map Of The World--Optimized by gasgasohlins, on Flickr

Switzerland gets tariff-free access to the Customs Union in exchange for allowing free movement of people and making a contribution to the EU budget without any input into how the money is spent.

The reality is, that is the best that we can hope for now: "continue to pay, and have no say."

44% of UK exports are to the EU.

[Philiptigerrice]

We've had less and less influence on the EU since its inception.
We joined a common market, and have been pulled along to the verge of a Federal State, as it becomes its own self fulfilling prophecy.
The argument that we should have stayed in, because we can only change it from the inside is utterly laughable.
The figure of 44% of exports is interesting. Much of my own issue with Europe, as somebody who has enjoyed working and travelling all over the world, is that it is SO short sighted - and getting worse.
The rest of the world is developing and getting on with life - in a Global Market - and we're still getting pissed about in vast committees on stupid stuff like destroying the market for vehicle coolants so that only one factory in Germany can produce the (highly flammable) new gas, driving prices through the roof for consumers and making cars more dangerous (but its ok - because the Germans have forced it through).
(Try getting a Re-Gas for many 2 or 3 year old cars now - its is NOT £30 for a can of top up from Halfords anymore) :sick:
It's interesting because if you want to sell, oh I don't know, 10,000 calculators to somebody. Logistically, it is often massively cheaper to send them on a big vessel, to Australia, than it is to send them a few hundred miles to France, but we fail to even consider those markets, because we're so euro-centric and lazy with it too.
Look at the Kiwi Company, Fisher and Paykel. For decades they didn't even BOTHER trying to import into the UK. Some of the best domestic appliances and healthcare devices available - and we had to pay a fortune to get their world leading medical devices.
In the end they had to buy an Italian company in order to be able import into the UK - and instead of being a main stream brand - they're going Premium Brand, to cover the costs.
Yet - if we just scrap import and export fee's, as I hope we do - they'd have been able to put their gear on bloody big boats and send them over for pennies. But the EU doesn't like that, because it acts like a protection racket, to the cost of everyone involved.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

Those are fair points. NZ has gone completely 'free trade', as I understand it. But the export economy of NZ is dominated by agriculture. Places with growing populations will always want to buy food.
Would the British be prepared to accept, for example, American beef loaded with dangerous growth hormones or sub-standard fake Chinese products including pharmaceuticals and brake pads?
As a tiny nation negotiating with these economic and superpowers we'd just be told to suck it up.
Bear in mind that as an economic force the EU is currently second only to China.
Out of the EU, depending upon the measure, we are either fifth or ninth. And that's before the inevitable post-Brexit shrinkage.
Our second most important export product is cars...(the first is gold, as a reflection of our banking sector). Our automotive industry is utterly dependent upon a free-flow of components, engineers and technology with the European Union. If we have a 'hard Brexit' or 'no deal' or 'Brexit means Brexit' then that's curtains for our automotive sector.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... britain-eu

[Philiptigerrice]

Lol - the Guardian has been so Anti-Brexit it might as well have been sponsored by Mr Junckers! :silly:



As an "economic force" - the EU is in an enormous mess - elements of it are in near bankruptcy and others lied through the teeth, (with the likely unspoken backing of Brussels) in order to join the EuroZone - purely so they could push through another stage of expansion and take a step closer to a debt fueled Federalist Utopia which nobody voted for.

Interestingly though, lots of people have voted against expansion - just ask the Dutch - except - their Referendum result was just ignored and sidestepped when they said No to the Ukraine joining. (Yet another reason to laugh in the general direction of anybody naive enough to think that you can change it from the inside!) :laugh:

We as individuals - or as a population have zero voice or power in Europe. Thats my biggest issue with it. I was working in Holland (alongside many many non EU nationals - the red passport isn't the be all and end all) during the Referendum there - and the population was furious and amused at the same time - they knew what the result would be all along.

Shocking - and dangerous.

As for dangerous meat products from the USA - well we've already had CjD, and Horseburgers, and Foot and Mouth, and TB, and sheep being burned alive by French Farmers at the ports.

Being in the EU didn't help with very much of that :whistle:

Besides - the USA can;t be that safety ignorant - they banned Kinder Eggs! Lol

And if we want to avoid cheap Chinese fakes - take a look at the 'Designer Man Bags and Sunglasses and Luxury Watches' on the Sales Board on various Non ABR motorcycle forum groups (All the hooky non bike kit being sold) or eBay - or take a walk down to Chetham Hill in Manchester - the fake goods epicentre of Europe by all accounts...

I can respect your points as valid and interesting - but non of them convince me I voted badly.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

The Guardian didn't make that story up: they were fed it by the SMMT probably at the behest of the BMW press office, but it's entirely typical of the very complex automotive supply chain in the UK. I think about 9 of the top 12 global tier one and two automotive suppliers currently have manufacturing or R&D in the UK. there will be little or no point in them staying if we have a hard Brexit.
I can give you another example...from my own knowledge.
All RHD DAF trucks are assembled in Leyland...on the site of the old Leyland Trucks factory.
The heavy trucks (CF and XF) are fitted with DAF MX engines, which are made in Eindhoven, Holland. But key components of the MX engine (crankshaft, fuel injection system, turbocharger) are currently made in the UK. These components are trucked to Holland, assembled into an engine which is mated to a German gearbox, then transported back to the UK, where they are assembled into trucks that have German axles and Belgian cabs. The whole lot has to be synchronised on a JIT basis.
It's even more complicated for the lighter truck: the LF. All LFs, LHD and RHD for Europe and elsewhere, are assembled at Leyland where the truck was designed. Most get exported back to the EU mainland. But they have Cummins-built engines from Darlington, and French cabs from Renault Trucks, as well as German transmissions.
In total, 14,500 trucks are built there every year by about 1000 people.
Do you seriously think that Paccar, DAF's American owner, is going to put up with production delays at Leyland caused by Brexit and the consequent hard border?
Will Paccar pay a 20% duty every time goods enter or leave the UK?
It's very doubtful. Especially when they can go to the EU and say...we'd like to open a truck assembly plant in the EU to get around the border control these Brit idiots have caused: the EU, smarting from Brexit, will be only too happy to build it for them.
And, bingo, there go 1000 UK jobs. But it won't stop there: what about those British-made components? They will be subject to border delays too.
DAF don't have to have their crankshafts made by an American-owned company in Glasgow, where they are now. They can get those made in Germany, by another American-owned company. Germany can also provide the fuel injection (currently from Gloucestershire) and turbochargers (currently from Huddersfield, Yorkshire).
And Cummins, who make the engines for the LF. Another American company. Most of the customers for the Cummins factory in Darlington will be in the EU too. That factory will probably go to Poland or somewhere...another 800 jobs.
I don't think areas such as Darlington, Huddersfield, Glasgow and Leyland can afford to lose these well-paid jobs, do you?
I expect the people of Britain are going to end up not as Brexiters, but Regretsiters. Thank goodness the referendum was only advisory: there's still a chance that the EU may let us come back...probably on condition we relinquish the 'Thatcher cheque'.