One year on was it worth it?

[Seminole]

A reasonable and mature conversation?, whats that then?

[Nick_2112]

Quick answer to OP question.....NO
My reasoning, David Cameron offered the referendum to appease those Tory voters who were drifting towards Ukip. I don't think, deep down he thought it would even come to a referendum, and he certainly thought if it did, he would easily win it.
Move on a year, the referendum is held and he lost! but I think the areas that had the most effect, were those areas that had seen large scale immigration rises the most and the large influx of E Europeans who do farm, factory and service sector jobs. Ironically, it is the very employers who the Tory's try to help that want this large scale immigrant workforce.
David Cameron was in a lose/lose situation of his own making.
Theresa May got the top job, she can't win either because the establishment, the people who really rule, did not expect to be in this situation, so the government have very little idea what to do.
Therese May, took a gamble, she took the uncertanty of the situation to try to boost her majority to get through parliament her unpopular stuff, and we all know what happend there. She did something she didn't need to do.
So now we are in a situation where the Conservatives don't like Theresa May, but would rather have her neck in the noose than their own, notice no queue to topple her, it could be done simply and quickly.
The conservatives know the outcome of Brexit is bleak, because apart from a handfull of Euro haters and Ukip, they did not think it would get to this. They have no plan, no stratergy and no hope of getting a deal that will be good for Britain and that the 27 other EU leaders will agree to.
I'm no Tory but, Michael Hesletine summed it up perfectly, 'Brexit is the cancer that will eat the Tory party'
Very unfortunately for us, they have gone up a road, got lost and now can't and don't know how to turn back.

[lebowski]

Quick answer to OP question.....NO

My reasoning, David Cameron offered the referendum to appease those Tory voters who were drifting towards Ukip. I don't think, deep down he thought it would even come to a referendum, and he certainly thought if it did, he would easily win it.

Move on a year, the referendum is held and he lost! but I think the areas that had the most effect, were those areas that had seen large scale immigration rises the most and the large influx of E Europeans who do farm, factory and service sector jobs. Ironically, it is the very employers who the Tory's try to help that want this large scale immigrant workforce.

David Cameron was in a lose/lose situation of his own making.

Theresa May got the top job, she can't win either because the establishment, the people who really rule, did not expect to be in this situation, so the government have very little idea what to do.

Therese May, took a gamble, she took the uncertanty of the situation to try to boost her majority to get through parliament her unpopular stuff, and we all know what happend there. She did something she didn't need to do.

So now we are in a situation where the Conservatives don't like Theresa May, but would rather have her neck in the noose than their own, notice no queue to topple her, it could be done simply and quickly.

The conservatives know the outcome of Brexit is bleak, because apart from a handfull of Euro haters and Ukip, they did not think it would get to this. They have no plan, no stratergy and no hope of getting a deal that will be good for Britain and that the 27 other EU leaders will agree to.

I'm no Tory but, Michael Hesletine summed it up perfectly, 'Brexit is the cancer that will eat the Tory party'

Very unfortunately for us, they have gone up a road, got lost and now can't and don't know how to turn back.

Who do you consider to be 'the establishment'?

Are they not the extreme right wing of the tory party, who wanted Brexit at all costs (or so it would seem)?

Sorry, I am naive, but I'm trying to understand!

[SteveR]

A reasonable and mature conversation?, whats that then?

It's essentially what happened between the DUP and Tess May

DUP: "Gissa Money"
Tess: "How much?"

Conversation over... :dry:

[Nick_2112]

Quick answer to OP question.....NO

My reasoning, David Cameron offered the referendum to appease those Tory voters who were drifting towards Ukip. I don't think, deep down he thought it would even come to a referendum, and he certainly thought if it did, he would easily win it.

Move on a year, the referendum is held and he lost! but I think the areas that had the most effect, were those areas that had seen large scale immigration rises the most and the large influx of E Europeans who do farm, factory and service sector jobs. Ironically, it is the very employers who the Tory's try to help that want this large scale immigrant workforce.

David Cameron was in a lose/lose situation of his own making.

Theresa May got the top job, she can't win either because the establishment, the people who really rule, did not expect to be in this situation, so the government have very little idea what to do.

Therese May, took a gamble, she took the uncertanty of the situation to try to boost her majority to get through parliament her unpopular stuff, and we all know what happend there. She did something she didn't need to do.

So now we are in a situation where the Conservatives don't like Theresa May, but would rather have her neck in the noose than their own, notice no queue to topple her, it could be done simply and quickly.

The conservatives know the outcome of Brexit is bleak, because apart from a handfull of Euro haters and Ukip, they did not think it would get to this. They have no plan, no stratergy and no hope of getting a deal that will be good for Britain and that the 27 other EU leaders will agree to.

I'm no Tory but, Michael Hesletine summed it up perfectly, 'Brexit is the cancer that will eat the Tory party'

Very unfortunately for us, they have gone up a road, got lost and now can't and don't know how to turn back.

Who do you consider to be 'the establishment'?

Are they not the extreme right wing of the tory party, who wanted Brexit at all costs (or so it would seem)?

Sorry, I am naive, but I'm trying to understand!

The extreme right wing of the Tory party are generally the very people who demand low wages and they are the one's who exploit immigrant workers who will work long hours for less than the minimum wage without complaining. They want to get rid of EU bureaucracy, workers rights etc, yet they 'import' huge numbers of EU labour workforce.

The way many people see it is, you can't keep wages down without mass immigrant labour, but they don't want thousands of immigrants 'coming in' to our country. it's hypocracy.

I would say the 'establishment' are the people at the top of the pile who generate, control and own much of the wealth of Britain. That is why some of the very wealthy donate to the tory party, as it is in their interests. IMO of course.

The country voted for many reasons for brexit, the Tory party have many different views on brexit and Theresa May will probably be remembered for brexit.

[Trev]

Theresa May will probably be remembered for brexit.

I agree and don't expect history will be kind to her at all. I'm no fan of Mrs May's but hats off to her for picking up the challenge and not leaving us to the mercy of public schoolboy Boris or raving Lefty Jezzer, either of whom will further divide already massively divided opinions and at least one of which will *uck things up even more.

Given the scale of the task and the amount of hard work she has to put in to deliver something she didn't agree with in the first place, I imagine that most of us would have just 'done a Camneron' and bunked off to do something less stressful.

Being PM is starting to look a lot like England footie managers job (everyone else has an opinion but not the balls, brains or experience to do the job) but on far, far less money! The sooner we start using the football model for our politics the better, up the wages by twenty times, allow transfers and we could attract some overseas talent like Putin and Trump to show us how things could be ; )

[daytona-supersport]

One year on was it worth it? Yep. (thumbs)

[Mike101]

So it's one year on and guess what.....we are all still here..still alive...WOW.
All this noise will get sorted. Import and exports will not change in any way.....can you imagine all imported German and French cars going up by 20% overnight ?
Too many people at the top with too much to loose to make any changes.
Mike

[lebowski]

Quick answer to OP question.....NO

My reasoning, David Cameron offered the referendum to appease those Tory voters who were drifting towards Ukip. I don't think, deep down he thought it would even come to a referendum, and he certainly thought if it did, he would easily win it.

Move on a year, the referendum is held and he lost! but I think the areas that had the most effect, were those areas that had seen large scale immigration rises the most and the large influx of E Europeans who do farm, factory and service sector jobs. Ironically, it is the very employers who the Tory's try to help that want this large scale immigrant workforce.

David Cameron was in a lose/lose situation of his own making.

Theresa May got the top job, she can't win either because the establishment, the people who really rule, did not expect to be in this situation, so the government have very little idea what to do.

Therese May, took a gamble, she took the uncertanty of the situation to try to boost her majority to get through parliament her unpopular stuff, and we all know what happend there. She did something she didn't need to do.

So now we are in a situation where the Conservatives don't like Theresa May, but would rather have her neck in the noose than their own, notice no queue to topple her, it could be done simply and quickly.

The conservatives know the outcome of Brexit is bleak, because apart from a handfull of Euro haters and Ukip, they did not think it would get to this. They have no plan, no stratergy and no hope of getting a deal that will be good for Britain and that the 27 other EU leaders will agree to.

I'm no Tory but, Michael Hesletine summed it up perfectly, 'Brexit is the cancer that will eat the Tory party'

Very unfortunately for us, they have gone up a road, got lost and now can't and don't know how to turn back.

Who do you consider to be 'the establishment'?

Are they not the extreme right wing of the tory party, who wanted Brexit at all costs (or so it would seem)?

Sorry, I am naive, but I'm trying to understand!

The extreme right wing of the Tory party are generally the very people who demand low wages and they are the one's who exploit immigrant workers who will work long hours for less than the minimum wage without complaining. They want to get rid of EU bureaucracy, workers rights etc, yet they 'import' huge numbers of EU labour workforce.

The way many people see it is, you can't keep wages down without mass immigrant labour, but they don't want thousands of immigrants 'coming in' to our country. it's hypocracy.

I would say the 'establishment' are the people at the top of the pile who generate, control and own much of the wealth of Britain. That is why some of the very wealthy donate to the tory party, as it is in their interests. IMO of course.

The country voted for many reasons for brexit, the Tory party have many different views on brexit and Theresa May will probably be remembered for brexit.

That's the bit I don't understand.....

If the wealthy want cheap labour, understand that only certain EU nationals fancy cleaning toilets at 4 in the morning, why are they funding the push for us to leave the EU and cut off the supply of this cheap labour?

Surely that's cutting off their noses?

[lebowski]

So it's one year on and guess what.....we are all still here..still alive...WOW.

All this noise will get sorted. Import and exports will not change in any way.....can you imagine all imported German and French cars going up by 20% overnight ?

Too many people at the top with too much to loose to make any changes.

Mike

But hasn't that already happened?

The value of the pound against the euro has dropped from 1.40 to 1.14 (nearly 20%) which means that the cost of the UK imports from europe has gone up by the same amount.

The UK is a much, much bigger importer of goods and services than it is an exporter.

Who are the people at the top who have too much to lose?

Sorry but I still don't see any evidence that Brexit will work to the UK's advantage. Maybe in the long term, with luck and a government that recognises that investment is needed in business.