One year on was it worth it?

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Philiptigerrice
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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Philiptigerrice » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:22 am

You're probably right...
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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by daveuprite » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:26 am

Philiptigerrice wrote:You're probably right...
Not sure what happened to your full-length post, Philip. Shame it's gone because it was a very good summary of many of the issues faced by UK society these days, since it chose to become a low wage, low rights service economy constantly kicking debt down the road.

The current generation is the first in modern british history to be less healthy than the generation before, with a lower life expectancy (amazing but true!), to expect worse economic conditions and to be fundamentally unable in many cases to save for a house deposit let alone service a mortgage. These were once assumed to be basics of growing up in a developed country.

Blaming millennials for the complacency, unsustainable practices and selfishness of previous generations is very sad and unfair. Many under 25/30s have so little prospect of entering the housing market or building a meaningful career with a good pension that they often feel that they had might as well stay at home with the parents (if that's possible) and spend what spare money they have on unsecured consumer goods etc. Why be a careful saver and put money aside for a deposit/mortgage when the drawbridge of home ownership was effectively pulled up by the greed of the generation/s before?

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by jonny955 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:46 am

Very good points there, Dave, although it's easy to blame much on the 'greed' which drives the capitalist world. Without that greed, we'd have something akin to a Kibutz!
I've been saying for ages tat the biggest challenge facing our United Kingdom isn't Brexit, pensions, Schools, tax etc. It's simply this; Housing. We need to fix the housing crisis and yes, I'm one who has won (and lost) on the wave of the house-price economy.
Being in the EU has not helped a jot. Look at the tenant's rent laws in places such as Germany (where the culture is to rent) and see how secure they are with long term leases and inflation-proof contracts. It promotes stability and the building of communities because people are not in fear of or actually forced out of their homes every six months like in the UK.
I don't blame tenants for not getting involved in building their local communities, cutting the grass, keeping the place tidy etc. if they are living under that fear. Why invest in something so short term?
Give someone security of tenure to bring up their kids and society will feel it's in a better place.
Jon

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Redmurty » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:09 am

Please someone educate this poor ignorant Brexiteer.....
WTF is the point of an organisation or being a member of an organisation who's rules and regs you can just choose to ignore ? and they tell me it's working
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
If it's just a case of spreading wealth please explain to me and the vast number of unemployed under 25's where the wealth is going ?
If it's a matter of trade, why not have a "common market" oh dear we tried that one but decided a "United States of Europe" was required (thumbs) :whistle: of course we could just choose to ignore the rules of both organisation whilst handing over billions for the privilege :woohoo:
People want certainty they say, but it's a negotiation who knows exactly what will come out at the end. If we did it would not be an negotiation FFS. Nothing will even kick off to after the German election because lets face it the mercat runs the EU (thumbs)
The EU comprises of a small portion of the world, why not go back to trading with the world and do the very thing that made us in the first place.

Domestic front....
Housing
why would I as a PLC make a house where I can make 10k profit when I can build a house where I can make a 100k profit.
If you want a mass of cheap affordable house's then pay more tax that can go to local authorities to pay for the build these house's.
This country spends 60 billion plus more than it raises for the exchequer, everyone one of those extra spent £'s is more tax our children are going to have to pay
:woohoo: goodo lets just pass the debt on (thumbs)
Cheers Spud ;)
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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by AlanHolt » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:20 am

Redmurty wrote:
why would I as a PLC make a house where I can make 10k profit when I can build a house where I can make a 100k profit.
Greed is killing society. I only need to earn €10,000/yr to have A comfortable life. That comfortable life includes a farm with 3 houses, a car, a van and 4 motorbikes. Why would I want to earn more than I need? If I increased my prices, what would I do with the surplus cash? Waste it on stuff I don't need just to show off? Why strive to make huge profits with high prices to the detriment of society? It doesn't make sense to me.

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by jonny955 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:10 pm

AlanHolt wrote:
Redmurty wrote:
why would I as a PLC make a house where I can make 10k profit when I can build a house where I can make a 100k profit.
Greed is killing society. I only need to earn €10,000/yr to have A comfortable life. That comfortable life includes a farm with 3 houses, a car, a van and 4 motorbikes. Why would I want to earn more than I need? If I increased my prices, what would I do with the surplus cash? Waste it on stuff I don't need just to show off? Why strive to make huge profits with high prices to the detriment of society? It doesn't make sense to me.
Where in the world are you?

You surely are not suggesting that an income of 10,000 Euros will be enough in Western Europe to sustain that lifestyle and most people will have to start without any of that!

Jon

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Philiptigerrice » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:57 pm

I deleted my own post Dave...
Trying to get some people to see objectively what I was trying to say was just a waste of my time.
Everyone has their own opinion - and nobody wants to feel like it is being implied that their generations obsession with forever increasing house prices is effectively fucking everyone over in the long run.
I rent my house - but I earn good money. I could try and save up for a mortgage, but am paying some debts off that were incurred during several years of cancer treatment.
I'll get on the ladder eventually, but it will be so late in the day, that we are discussing saving up two smaller deposits for our children instead.
We've already opened small stakeholder pensions for them, in the vain hope that they won't have to work until they are 75 years old.
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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by AlanHolt » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:05 pm

jonny955 wrote:
Where in the world are you?

You surely are not suggesting that an income of 10,000 Euros will be enough in Western Europe to sustain that lifestyle and most people will have to start without any of that!

Jon
I'm in Catalonia, Spain. Mortgage free (but you can buy habitable farms here for €19,000), and if we weren't paying into the Spanish system, we could get by earning a lot less. Land tax is only €400 per year for everything we own, vehicle tax is less than a tank of fuel. A bottle of gas for cooking lasts about 3 months and costs €17. Its a cheaper way of life because its not a convenient way of life.

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:34 pm

AlanHolt wrote:
jonny955 wrote:
Where in the world are you?

You surely are not suggesting that an income of 10,000 Euros will be enough in Western Europe to sustain that lifestyle and most people will have to start without any of that!

Jon
I'm in Catalonia, Spain. Mortgage free (but you can buy habitable farms here for €19,000), and if we weren't paying into the Spanish system, we could get by earning a lot less. Land tax is only €400 per year for everything we own, vehicle tax is less than a tank of fuel. A bottle of gas for cooking lasts about 3 months and costs €17. Its a cheaper way of life because its not a convenient way of life.
Sounds great...will Brexit be the end of it for you, or is it too early to tell?

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Re: One year on was it worth it?

Post by Jak* » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:53 pm

It is interesting how many comments on this thread are actually about areas which are unrelated to our EU membership or about aspects of the EU which will not change if we leave. This is perhaps indicative of some of the issues of the campaign and the nature of pub discussions.
To me it has been an interesting year and I have learnt far more about the EU and our relationship with it than I knew before. I still feel that it is far from perfect but then so is our own parliamentary system. Unfortunately virtually every day since last year there has been another piece of information that has shown me that to leave is going to be more complex and costly than anyone ever imagined. I get that I have a biased view but there has been so little in the news that would convince me now that we should leave. Trump's election makes it even more perilous, the Americans are now wanting to restrict imports of motorcycles from the EU unless we import their hormone injected beef, that hardly bodes well for future trade deals.
I can't quite get the idea that to not leave would be undemocratic when it was never exactly clear what it was that we were voting for and it was decided that the final decision should rest with parliament anyway. With so many new younger voters having registered to vote it seems very likely that if the referendum were to be run again the result would be reversed and if you assume that people voted against May because they did not want the 'no deal etc' scenario, to go ahead with a hard Brexit could equally be construed as undemocratic.
On a lighter note this made me chuckle:
queenandduke.png
queenandduke.png (98.8 KiB) Viewed 314 times
It just goes to show how just looking at the headlines could be open to misinterpretation.
Cheers Jak

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