No incentive, means....

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Stewie
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No incentive, means....

Post by Stewie » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:10 am

.....that a lot more young riders are on the road for longer, with less training.

As most of us already have our licenses, you may not be aware of all the hoops and loops that the younger generation have to go through to get on two wheels.

Assuming that the Theory Test has been done.

Here's my point, from 16 - 17 it's 50cc on a CBT and L plate or a test for AM.
From 17> you can ride a 125cc with CBT and L plate.
Now here's the stupid bit, from 17 if you do the test, you can still only ride a 125cc for 2 years, so it's cheaper and quicker to get the next group up ( 46 BHP ) by not doing the test and just riding on a CBT and L plate for 2 years.
So if a young rider starts at 16, he/she has 3 years riding around on a CBT ( I know they only last 2 years ) until the first bit of real training for the A2 and on to a 46bhp.

I know there are a few instructors on the site, would be interesting to get their views as I am just looking through layman's eyes.

On that note, good luck to Andy17 as he's jumping through the final hoop to get his full A licence. He has done each stage as required and yep you have to do the mod 1 again every time.

My theory, is if he can do it on this tank, should be OK on the day with a ER6N or MT07 :laugh:

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Apophis
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Re: No incentive, means....

Post by Apophis » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:29 am

Yes but the reason for more not doing the A2 is that even when you do the Mod 1 And Mod 2 you have to redo these on the more powerful bike once you are 24 so most wait until they are old enough to do the Direct access we can only hope that the law changes once Europe is not running our country :whistle: :whistle:
Every day is an adventure

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Re: No incentive, means....

Post by Peirre » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:00 pm

Having done around 8-9 driving test classes and failed 2 of them once each (1x car & 1x C+E) there's a lot of hoops to jump through to get a driving licence. Add in periodic vocational training and medical exams to maintain some of those classes, and it becomes eye watering.
When I did my motorcycle test it was after the 125cc law came in and it consisted of a part 1 obstacle course, followed by riding around the block of the test centre, with the "emergency" stop going up a steep hill

The Sarge
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Re: No incentive, means....

Post by The Sarge » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:06 pm

Stewie wrote:.....that a lot more young riders are on the road for longer, with less training.

As most of us already have our licenses, you may not be aware of all the hoops and loops that the younger generation have to go through to get on two wheels.

Assuming that the Theory Test has been done.

Here's my point, from 16 - 17 it's 50cc on a CBT and L plate or a test for AM.
From 17> you can ride a 125cc with CBT and L plate.
Now here's the stupid bit, from 17 if you do the test, you can still only ride a 125cc for 2 years, so it's cheaper and quicker to get the next group up ( 46 BHP ) by not doing the test and just riding on a CBT and L plate for 2 years.
So if a young rider starts at 16, he/she has 3 years riding around on a CBT ( I know they only last 2 years ) until the first bit of real training for the A2 and on to a 46bhp.

I know there are a few instructors on the site, would be interesting to get their views as I am just looking through layman's eyes.

On that note, good luck to Andy17 as he's jumping through the final hoop to get his full A licence. He has done each stage as required and yep you have to do the mod 1 again every time.

My theory, is if he can do it on this tank, should be OK on the day with a ER6N or MT07 :laugh:

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I wish Andy all the best for his test Stew, he'll be fine (thumbs)

Sarge

Stewie
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Re: No incentive, means....

Post by Stewie » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:59 pm

Peirre wrote:Having done around 8-9 driving test classes and failed 2 of them once each (1x car & 1x C+E) there's a lot of hoops to jump through to get a driving licence. Add in periodic vocational training and medical exams to maintain some of those classes, and it becomes eye watering.
When I did my motorcycle test it was after the 125cc law came in and it consisted of a part 1 obstacle course, followed by riding around the block of the test centre, with the "emergency" stop going up a steep hill

Oh don't get me started on DCPC, CPC and CPCI as well as all the other crap that goes with sucking eggs..... :angry: can someone help me off this soap box.... :whistle:

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Re: No incentive, means....

Post by jonny955 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:44 pm

It was well documented at the time the new test regime was introduced but it fell on deaf ears. Although I'd like to blame the EU for this, and I do in part, it is really the UK Civil Service who could have thought it through before blanket acceptance of the worst way to interpret the ruling.

We, in Britain, could have chosen to do it the French way. My understanding of this (and apologies if it is wrong); to move up to the next step, you need to book a fixed number of assessment hours with an instructor (I think it's 7) and then upgrade to the next cc/BHP stage.

With our system, chosen by our own government, it's pretty clear that the most vulnerable of PTW users will have no incentive to take any further training. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out what that means. Initially, the proposals were hailed as a wonderful success because more riders were taking 'the test' but in fact they were trying to get in before the law changed! Just ask any training school for stats.

The other thing wrong with our system is the relative ease to go from a complete novice (24+) to full license in one dry summer week, then a year or two later, ride off in the snow on his 'Busa!. The system is discouraging starting on something small and gaining real world experience over several seasons, which is a far better way to develop skills. Who can blame the riders for choosing this route?

Jon

PS good luck with the test (thumbs)

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boboneleg
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Re: No incentive, means....

Post by boboneleg » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:37 pm

The government in this country (whichever one it is) has no interest in promoting motorcycles as a means of transport, hence why new users have to jump through so many hoops.

The very best of luck to Andy, I'm sure he'll pass everything he needs to (thumbs).

Unfortunately by time he gets to our ages I fear he'll be going out for a ride on his own as most kids have no interest in gaining their full motorcycle licence and who can blame them :S
one-legged adventurer

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Re: No incentive, means....

Post by Jak* » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:07 pm

Whilst the licensing system in this country is absurd, particularly when compared to the car system where if you are wealthy enough you can drive whatever you want full of passengers when you pass your car test, it is not entirely fair to blame the EU. Once again it is down to how the UK government chooses to interpret EU rulings in this case the licensing directive. In some EU countries you can still ride a moped at 15 and some a 125 at 16. What is particularly annoying is that in this country the government has cut the funding for A levels and is insisting that even if a young person has a full time job their employer has to provide some education until they are eighteen. This means that more and more young people between the ages of 16 and 18 are going to have to travel further to their place of education. Fine if their parents can afford it, but once again the UK government brings in legislation which (possibly inadvertently) discriminates against the less well off.
You also cannot even ride a classic motorcycle of over 125cc until you are nineteen. If anyone knows of an easy 125cc conversion for a Tiger cub I would be grateful.
Cheers Jak

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Re: No incentive, means....

Post by ollydog » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:07 pm

jonny955 wrote:It was well documented at the time the new test regime was introduced but it fell on deaf ears. Although I'd like to blame the EU for this, and I do in part, it is really the UK Civil Service who could have thought it through before blanket acceptance of the worst way to interpret the ruling.

We, in Britain, could have chosen to do it the French way. My understanding of this (and apologies if it is wrong); to move up to the next step, you need to book a fixed number of assessment hours with an instructor (I think it's 7) and then upgrade to the next cc/BHP stage.

With our system, chosen by our own government, it's pretty clear that the most vulnerable of PTW users will have no incentive to take any further training. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out what that means. Initially, the proposals were hailed as a wonderful success because more riders were taking 'the test' but in fact they were trying to get in before the law changed! Just ask any training school for stats.

The other thing wrong with our system is the relative ease to go from a complete novice (24+) to full license in one dry summer week, then a year or two later, ride off in the snow on his 'Busa!. The system is discouraging starting on something small and gaining real world experience over several seasons, which is a far better way to develop skills. Who can blame the riders for choosing this route?

Jon

PS good luck with the test (thumbs)
think its just as bad for the rich kids who pass the test at 17 then drives daddy's veyron or what have they, unless things have changed

steve

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Re: No incentive, means....

Post by AndyB » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:09 pm

All this does is reinforce my view that any form of advanced training is pointless unless it's allowed to be used as a direct replacement for parts of the government training. If they'd allow a pass from the IAM to be used as a short cut or a bypass for some of the legal requirements then there'd be an incentive to take it but right now any young rider will do the training that gives them something they can use.

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