EU. In or out?

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daveuprite
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite » Tue May 28, 2019 10:41 am

Crossrutted wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:16 am
HedgeHopper wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:38 am

This lie has been popping up all over the internet, as it gets re-posted by the remain zealots whose fervour far surpasses their integrity.

The fact that adding up the posts of all the parties that advocate remain equals a bit more that the votes from one leave party means remain votes outnumber leave votes is a bit of statistical tom foolery that ignores the fact that many people vote for their party for many different reasons, quite a few from simple party faithfull inertia and of course any number of other policy issues. (the greens for instance making huge gains because of increasing alarm at the state of the planet)

Only idiots are fooled by this disingeuous twisting of reality
If you change the word "remain" for "leave" your analysis could equally be applied to any "leave" argument.

The original referendum was for many the chance to kick the establishment in the nuts, they didn't consider the real consequences, as nobody expected a leave vote.

Voting for the leave party last week was also chance for both leavers and remainers to register their current contempt for all the political class.

No sane person would vote Farage for PM - he's a single issue rabble rouser.

The only way to get a true result now, is to hold a referendum with one clear question - "Remain or Leave?"

Then insist all politicians and talking heads tell the truth by enforcing criminal consequences for lies.

As before, the increasingly hysterical arguments from leaver politicians against a second referendum makes me certain it would be a good thing.
Mmmm. It's hard to see another way out of the impasse, especially the parliamentary impasse. But I'm not sure another referendum will end up solving anything. If remain won, which looks likely (narrowly) then of course there is the huge advantage of the UK not crashing out, retaining freedoms and rights, avoiding recession, reputational damage, influence lost etc etc. But the leavers would not let it lie and the country is unlikely to heal culturally and socially for many years, if at all.

Just look at how close things still are, and how much more polarised they are, after 3 years of heated 'debate':

Votes for Brexit Party:
5,244,893.

Petition to revoke Article 50 (still live):
6,085,213.



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Richard Simpson Mark II
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II » Tue May 28, 2019 10:59 am


DavidS
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by DavidS » Tue May 28, 2019 11:07 am

If the referendum had gone Remain with the same figures, I honestly believe there would have been no repercussions other than a shrug of the shoulders then maybe a suggestion that our level of involvement in the EU might be reassessed.

As I understand it, the EU carefully sets the rules that there could be no negotiation without invoking Article 50 so there was no way the water could have been tested. knowing what we now know was never an option. I am deliberately ignoring the borrox spouted by both sides.

After Cameron, the blame should lie with the Electoral Commission who allowed the vote to go ahead in the guise it did without doing it’s own checks and assessments of the consequences.
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Tonibe63 » Tue May 28, 2019 11:25 am

Another day, another vote and another desperate clutching at straws by statisticians trying to pull the best fit scenario for their own agendas on both sides.
Another couple of months (before 31st October) we will be going to the poles in a general election after a pro Brexit Tory leader loses the vote of no confidence called by Parliament :roll: .
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Crossrutted » Tue May 28, 2019 11:41 am

DavidS wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:07 am
If the referendum had gone Remain with the same figures, I honestly believe there would have been no repercussions other than a shrug of the shoulders then maybe a suggestion that our level of involvement in the EU might be reassessed.

As I understand it, the EU carefully sets the rules that there could be no negotiation without invoking Article 50 so there was no way the water could have been tested. knowing what we now know was never an option. I am deliberately ignoring the borrox spouted by both sides.

After Cameron, the blame should lie with the Electoral Commission who allowed the vote to go ahead in the guise it did without doing it’s own checks and assessments of the consequences.
So David.........as clearly the referendum was poorly thought out and executed, any sane society would accept this and arrange a correctly organised rerun before it is too late.

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Pint Master » Tue May 28, 2019 1:00 pm

Crossrutted wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:41 am
DavidS wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:07 am
If the referendum had gone Remain with the same figures, I honestly believe there would have been no repercussions other than a shrug of the shoulders then maybe a suggestion that our level of involvement in the EU might be reassessed.

As I understand it, the EU carefully sets the rules that there could be no negotiation without invoking Article 50 so there was no way the water could have been tested. knowing what we now know was never an option. I am deliberately ignoring the borrox spouted by both sides.

After Cameron, the blame should lie with the Electoral Commission who allowed the vote to go ahead in the guise it did without doing it’s own checks and assessments of the consequences.
So David.........as clearly the referendum was poorly thought out and executed, any sane society would accept this and arrange a correctly organised rerun before it is too late.
The only problem with rerunning the referendum , apart from the obvious damage done to democracy would be that a lot of the entitled remainers and those with vested interests in us staying in want the options on the ballot paper to be 1 some sort of rubbish deal similar to the one May was peddling or 2 remain , also the leavers are always paddling upstream compared to the remainers because the remainers have the more powerful allies and of course the recipient of our TV Tax money on their side

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HedgeHopper
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by HedgeHopper » Tue May 28, 2019 1:48 pm

I've never heard so much bollox spouted by a bunch of toys out the pram Losers in all my life, ffs get a grip, we had a peoples vote, thats what a fucking referendum is.

Crossrutted
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Crossrutted » Tue May 28, 2019 2:21 pm

HedgeHopper wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:48 pm
I've never heard so much bollox spouted by a bunch of toys out the pram Losers in all my life, ffs get a grip, we had a peoples vote, thats what a fucking referendum is.
oh dear! the only bollox (sic) is your increasing hysteria. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by DavidS » Tue May 28, 2019 5:32 pm

Crossrutted wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:41 am
DavidS wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:07 am
If the referendum had gone Remain with the same figures, I honestly believe there would have been no repercussions other than a shrug of the shoulders then maybe a suggestion that our level of involvement in the EU might be reassessed.

As I understand it, the EU carefully sets the rules that there could be no negotiation without invoking Article 50 so there was no way the water could have been tested. knowing what we now know was never an option. I am deliberately ignoring the borrox spouted by both sides.

After Cameron, the blame should lie with the Electoral Commission who allowed the vote to go ahead in the guise it did without doing it’s own checks and assessments of the consequences.
So David.........as clearly the referendum was poorly thought out and executed, any sane society would accept this and arrange a correctly organised rerun before it is too late.
But that way lies equivalent disaster in any future referendum as the sore loser will always use the same excuse as there would be a precedent. Much as a referendum is dodgy by letting the great unwashed public decide, it is equally clear none of our politicians could decide their way out of a wet paper bag.

Another referendum will almost certainly not resolve the situation for once and for all as it will clearly be just as close, either way, so where does that leave it? If Remain won by the same margin, Leave will be equally entitled to ask for another go as we will be fed just as much rubbish from both sides as before as most of it is pure guesswork.
How on earth will the wording ever be agreed? Do we have a referendum on the referendum?
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Pint Master » Tue May 28, 2019 6:42 pm

Not wishing to put a spoke in the wheel of the multi-various statistics and graphs but there are about 2,000,000 EU citizens living in the UK who were allowed to vote in EU elections but were barred from voting in the referendum , Im sure their turnout at the ballot box was higher than the norm.

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