EU. In or out?

[Crossrutted]

It does seem like mission accomplished for projekt fear if this place is any indicator (I'm not entirely sure it is though).

One question for any legal-heads in here: If no deal is reached and Boris has legaly to ask for an extension, then whats to stop him going to brussels and basicaly saying something like

'I want an extension on article 50 for lets say a couple of months to get xmas over with, I don't really care if you grant it and dont expect things will be any different when this latest extension has ended but those barstards in parliament have forced me to ask you, so waddya say'

well waddya say?

I say "Boris is the ultimate self serving twat - but smart enough to fool the Lemmings."

[Jak*]

I think the term ‘project reality’ is somewhat more apt than ‘project fear’, especially for those who have already lost their jobs or been forced to move because of Brexit.

[Crossrutted]

This thread is pointless, other to reflect the current complete polarisation of English society regarding IN/OUT.

Both leavers and remainers have total contempt for the opposing opinion.

Will take decades/generations to heal.

The failure of the political/democratic system and consequent loss of trust may never recover.

[OB1]

This thread is pointless, other to reflect the current complete polarisation of English society regarding IN/OUT.

Both leavers and remainers have total contempt for the opposing opinion.

Will take decades/generations to heal.

The failure of the political/democratic system and consequent loss of trust may never recover.

I don't have contempt for those wanting to leave: I accept the result and wish that the government would stop titting around so that I know which visas I'll need when travelling abroad next year... something that I can't do at the moment.

It is obvious that this country will be damaged by this half-arsed idea, so can we just get on with it, please?

[Asgard]

It does seem like mission accomplished for projekt fear if this place is any indicator (I'm not entirely sure it is though).

One question for any legal-heads in here: If no deal is reached and Boris has legaly to ask for an extension, then whats to stop him going to brussels and basicaly saying something like

'I want an extension on article 50 for lets say a couple of months to get xmas over with, I don't really care if you grant it and dont expect things will be any different when this latest extension has ended but those barstards in parliament have forced me to ask you, so waddya say'

well waddya say?

I say "Boris is the ultimate self serving twat - but smart enough to fool the Lemmings."

Goes without saying, but what about the question?, Could Boris do something like that?, I would.

[DavidS]

I don’t have contempt for remainers, just disappointment with those who have contempt for leavers and make totally ignorant claims about our/their alleged but inaccurate xenophobia etc. Controlling legal and illegal immigration properly is a necessity but it doesn’t mean immigration shouldn’t happen. The EU are culpable for allowing the transition of illegals right across Europe.
We all had our reasons to vote the way we did and we should all respect those voters and their opinions.

It was project fear, not reality. I think most, if not all, of the doom mongers warnings before the referendum failed to materialise. BOTH SIDES told porkies.

Now, the real villains are ALL the politicians and their cronies on both sides, specifically including the Speaker,who have prolonged the agony by their constant bitching and self promotion. Add in an EU who, it became clear, were never going to negotiate reasonably and prolonging it beyond the end of March was always going to exacerbate the situation.

Anyone with morals and respect for the others point of view should have been able come up with a sufficiently fair resolution if they had worked together properly.

Edit...first sentence clarified.

[Jak*]

I would agree that the claims of disaster during the referendum campaign were in some cases exaggerated, however for those who have already lost their jobs or have been told that their jobs will go that is reality. The thousands of jobs that have already gone are reality. The thousands of UK students who are currently on the Erasamus scheme in the EU and have been told that they will have to return in the event of no deal are facing current real uncertainty. There are a few companies who have and will gain work if we leave the EU but there are far more who will lose it and face uncertainty. When some of the prominent Leave politicians tell us it will take 10- 30 years to get back to our current economic position it gives an indication of how bad things are likely to be. If we could see some of the incredibly rich people behind the Leave campaign’s plans to invest in UK industry once we leave then that might reduce the fear, but we just see the likes of Dyson skipping of abroad.
As for the xenophobia and racism not being real, you must live in a very different part of the UK to me. I have had friends who were born here and are British citizens, told they will be going home once we leave. A German couple who have lived and worked here for over twenty years, paying their taxes to our government have left and gone to France because of the abuse they were getting. Their children who are now in their twenties and were born here have had to go for the rigmarole of applying to be citizens. There are many leavers voters who are not racist or xenophobic but there are an awful lot who are. The fools who moan about the East European accents they hear in Lincolnshire, but do not understand that our farming industry in that area relies on these workers, being but one example. The Leave campaign did and still does play on some people’s xenophobia because they need that support.
Until the Leave campaign can produce a plan for the future which shows how the country will get back the jobs that we have already lost and create economic security for the future it has no credible argument. If it can do that I and other people who voted Remain may change our minds.
Cheers

[Asgard]

Well I dont Know Jak, you do a good job of spreading the fear regardless that its mostly guesswork pretending to be future facts

Heres a link which despite being from a group most definately on your side , does inadvertantly blow apart the myth of all right-minded businesses being remainers

You might also notice the spiteful nature of the wording on this and many other remain zealot's musings, which sort of weakens the case often shouted out loudly (with accompanying frothing at the mouth) that leavers are the nasty natured ones in all this

[Jak*]

Hi, I would happily read it but sorry I couldn’t see the link. Whilst I would not defend the abusive language that is used by some on both sides I can understand the frustration. It is a fact that people have suffered racist abuse and lost their jobs as a direct result of the referendum. If the Leave campaign denies this then it weakens their argument. They have to put a clear case that demonstrates that the advantages of leaving outweigh the disadvantages already suffered and those that many on their side are predicting will happen. Until this, it is just a lot of bluster about sovereignty and democracy which in light of what has happened in this country in the last three years is hardly worth shouting about.
Cheers

[daveuprite]

I would agree that the claims of disaster during the referendum campaign were in some cases exaggerated, however for those who have already lost their jobs or have been told that their jobs will go that is reality. The thousands of jobs that have already gone are reality. The thousands of UK students who are currently on the Erasamus scheme in the EU and have been told that they will have to return in the event of no deal are facing current real uncertainty. There are a few companies who have and will gain work if we leave the EU but there are far more who will lose it and face uncertainty. When some of the prominent Leave politicians tell us it will take 10- 30 years to get back to our current economic position it gives an indication of how bad things are likely to be. If we could see some of the incredibly rich people behind the Leave campaign’s plans to invest in UK industry once we leave then that might reduce the fear, but we just see the likes of Dyson skipping of abroad.
As for the xenophobia and racism not being real, you must live in a very different part of the UK to me. I have had friends who were born here and are British citizens, told they will be going home once we leave. A German couple who have lived and worked here for over twenty years, paying their taxes to our government have left and gone to France because of the abuse they were getting. Their children who are now in their twenties and were born here have had to go for the rigmarole of applying to be citizens. There are many leavers voters who are not racist or xenophobic but there are an awful lot who are. The fools who moan about the East European accents they hear in Lincolnshire, but do not understand that our farming industry in that area relies on these workers, being but one example. The Leave campaign did and still does play on some people’s xenophobia because they need that support.
Until the Leave campaign can produce a plan for the future which shows how the country will get back the jobs that we have already lost and create economic security for the future it has no credible argument. If it can do that I and other people who voted Remain may change our minds.
Cheers

Well said Jak, That's the most accurate assessment of the current situation we've seen on this thread for quite a while.