EU. In or out?

[ratass]

OUT

[shed]

I'm voting out.

[catcitrus]

My 5p worth (not Euro!):
I'm old enough to remember the EEC--which was a trade organisation we we were in at the start--and it operated with different currencies throughout Europe--and worked . We also had a trade agreement with Scandinavian countries--hence loads of Volvos in the UK and so on.
Car companies move to wherever suits--some Japanese to this country--some others to Spain Turkey etc--e.g. the good old Ford transit (which I helped design and develop). Its a world market and if we get out we will be free to reach trade agreements with whoever we like, and we will also be free to offer tax incentives to companies that wish to MOVE to the UK.
Its about time for a bit of nationalism and pride (like the French!). Its rather odd that the government sponsored and aided French utility companies have managed to buy just about all our water and power companies--you can guess where the profits go!!--and they seem to be able to bend EU rules to suit themselves--the common agricultural policy and fishing policies!We need to buy back our utilities, whack import duties on dumped products, and let our expertise do the talking.
All Camaloon has done is negotiate us further OUT of the EU--even more on the fringe--he reckons thats a plus !!!, and wants us to stay in--WE WERE NEVER "IN" !! --defies logic!

[MarkN]

My wife runs a large company that employs over 250 staff and includes Volvo and Audi, she has explained the implications to the business if we pull out of Europe and it's not good.

Yes, we employ a lot of people from Europe in jobs that British people wouldn't want to do on the money available but there are also a lot of Brits that work in Europe and that would impact on all of us.

As a country we export four times more goods and services than we import.

We would also lose thousands of jobs, there are a lot of European companies that are based here. Companies such as BMW could move the Mini plant from Oxford and as well as the workers there, it could also impact on all the subsidiaries that rely on it.

We would find that our travel insurance would get more expensive when travelling to Europe as our E111 cards wouldn't be of use and would we need separate bike insurance if we took them over the water, just like we have to get when we go to Morocco?

I will be voting to stay in Europe as I believe we're stronger as part of it than out of it and on our own.

[deskjetian]

My wife runs a large company that employs over 250 staff and includes Volvo and Audi, she has explained the implications to the business if we pull out of Europe and it's not good.

Yes, we employ a lot of people from Europe in jobs that British people wouldn't want to do on the money available but there are also a lot of Brits that work in Europe and that would impact on all of us.

As a country we export four times more goods and services than we import.

We would also lose thousands of jobs, there are a lot of European companies that are based here. Companies such as BMW could move the Mini plant from Oxford and as well as the workers there, it could also impact on all the subsidiaries that rely on it.

We would find that our travel insurance would get more expensive when travelling to Europe as our E111 cards wouldn't be of use and would we need separate bike insurance if we took them over the water, just like we have to get when we go to Morocco?

I will be voting to stay in Europe as I believe we're stronger as part of it than out of it and on our own.

(thumbs)
IN for me.

[skipper]

regarding statistics of uk exports to the the eu - if we put goods on a ship for export to the rest of the world and that ship first goes to one of the big euro hubs like rotterdam it is counted as an export to the eu, therefore boosting the figures for the in campaign.Take care with statistics, they are usually stacked in favor of someone.

[AndyB]

I'm certainly not basing my vote on immigration issues because the ones we're desperately trying to keep out are non EU passport holders and moving our border controls back over the Channel isn't going to help on that one :pinch:

Net immigration from EU countries isn't an issue for me because a lot of people from East European countries are doing jobs that the majority of people born here simply don't want. Stop them and we'll need to suddenly stop encouraging our kids to go to university to get a pointless degree and get their arses into distribution centres working on a zero hours contract or out in the fields working nearly every daylight hour.

Stop the benefits for those coming in and not working though.

[Tonibe63]

As yet I am undecided and will try to make sense of the FACTS before making a decision. The problem is getting the full facts and also getting them from an unbiased source.

[Mul001]

no books have ever been signed off on the eu showing where the money is spent,
I have to put my books in every year,corruption is rife,
I am looking for a out,

ahem, Not true !

There is a persistent myth (reliably recycled every year by UK newspapers) that the European Court of Auditors has refused to sign off the EU’s accounts, but this is entirely false.

In the most recent audit year (2013), the Court gave a clean bill of health to the accounts for the seventh time in a row. This means every euro spent from the EU budget was duly recorded in the books and accounted for. Evidence

According to the European Court of Auditors, around 0.2% of the EU budget may have been subject to fraud. Any amount of possible fraud is unacceptable and needs challenging. But it’s worth noting that the figure of 0.2% is much lower than most national budgets!

OR

As in previous years, we've woken up to stories about the European Union failing to get a clean bill of health for its accounts.

As ever, the truth is nuanced. The European Court of Auditors (ECA), an EU body set up to examine the accounts of the Union, signed off on the 2014 accounts as reliable—something it's done for every set of figures since 2007. But it did find that payments made were materially affected by error.

Getting it right or reporting it right

It might sound counterintuitive that accounts can be signed off on as reliable while there are irregular payments being made. But the two can comfortably go hand in hand.

When the ECA signs off on the accounts, it's saying that they were prepared according to international standards, and present a "true and fair" view of the EU's finances.

The ECA is also asked whether the EU received income and made payments in line with the relevant rules and regulations. While income passed with flying colours, spending didn't.

The EU budget contained €142.5 billion of spending in 2014. In every area of the budget (apart from administration), and overall, enough spending fell outside of the proper procedures to pass the 2% 'materiality threshold'—the point at which the auditors view these 'errors' as significant.

Overall, 4.4% of the EU's spending didn't follow the rules and accordingly shouldn't have been paid out.

This can cover quite a wide range of situations and isn't synonymous with waste or fraud, according to the ECA.

For instance, one way to run afoul of the rules is to award an EU-funded contract directly without holding a proper bidding process. While generally this is a bad idea, it's not always the case that another firm would have been able to put in a lower bid.

Other issues are recipients of funding claiming costs that aren't eligible under the rules, and farmers over-stating how much land they have.

The ECA said that 22 of 1,200 transactions it inspected during the audit might have been fraudulent, and referred them for further investigation.

The Times' "€133.6 billion" figure appears to be for total spending on things other than administration. While it's correct that spending in that €133.6 billion was "materially affected by error", it's not the case that the entire block of spending was "irregular or possibly illegal"; it just means that some of the spending within that total didn't follow the rules. The same could be said of the entire €142.5 billion EU budget.

Unfortunately the myth perpetuates endlessly, unfortunately.

[JonnyBravo]

We would also lose thousands of jobs, there are a lot of European companies that are based here. Companies such as BMW could move the Mini plant from Oxford and as well as the workers there, it could also impact on all the subsidiaries that rely on it.


I believe just the opposite - and I supply to the automotive and tier 1 industries
we would be completely free to set our own government incentives, initiatives and with the potential for the removal of a mass of EU regulation encourage more manufacturing into the UK.


(BMW already build the mini outside the UK at Nedcar by the way)