EU. In or out?

[garyboy]

as Mrs May describes it, it is a fantastic Deal .. does everything.
however, the majority of MP's seem to think its a bad Deal, from both sides, and most factions.
we have seen the PM be liberal with the truth, many times
and Ireland has been a problem since the English colonised it.
It has come back to bite their rear (shengen)
So it does seem that the Deal is a `bad` deal .. but I dont really know? .. and still hope that Mrs May will get it through, as things can be negotiated later, for improvements, and we can all enjoy the benefits of the EU, but with more freedom to do our thing.

We all know it has all been badly handled.
What makes it worse is the inflexibility of the PM, her uncaring attitude, and her inability to `reach out` to Parliament as a whole.
There comes a time when the stolid stance becomes an encumbrance, and inflexibility leads to breakage.

I hope this can all be sorted soon, and a more caring environment ensues.

[Jak*]

Personally I think we should have asked the Germans to sort it out for us. With their efficiency, they would have had it done and dusted eighteen months ago.
Cheers Jak

[daveuprite]

MP's are mostly remainers
Voters are mostly leavers

You were right for a brief moment, and by a wafer-thin margin, back in June 2016 - and you are clearly clinging on to it with everything you have.

But things have moved on dramatically. Those who spent no time thinking or caring about UK/EU politics have started to wake up to how bad leaving would be. Those who tamely and unquestioningly absorbed 40 years of Fleet Street anti-EU propaganda have begun to query that barrage of misinformation. Those who voted to leave out of protest at what was actually a domestic austerity crisis have woken up to the reality that their grievances are national ones, not European. Those who bitterly opposed brexit are freshly invigorated by the ineptitude of May's government and the self-serving brexiteers who have brazenly hijacked the process.

You had your slim chance and your representatives in parliament blew it. Even if a no-deal happens on April 12th, all it will prove is what a giant mistake you made.

[HedgeHopper]

I bumped into this lot yesterday, apparently they knew what was best for me and insisted I listen, sounded like a load of bollox, but then I realised they didnt have any

peoples_sheeples_march_84a34bf0d957a7d0404866c36627e3ca3fc843d2.jpg (56.34 KiB) Viewed 2509 times

[Brenhden]

I bumped into this lot yesterday, apparently they knew what was best for me and insisted I listen, sounded like a load of bollox, but then I realised they didnt have any

peoples_sheeples_march_84a34bf0d957a7d0404866c36627e3ca3fc843d2.jpg

What a constructive addition to the debate...

[garyboy]

MP's are mostly remainers
Voters are mostly leavers

You were right for a brief moment, and by a wafer-thin margin, back in June 2016 ..

are you a spin doctor?

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/how-mps ... 4110245462


.. that's for MPs

as for the rest … the people .. have you heard of
first past the post ?
(it is a voting system we use in the UK)

[daveuprite]

MP's are mostly remainers
Voters are mostly leavers

You were right for a brief moment, and by a wafer-thin margin, back in June 2016 ..

are you a spin doctor?

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/how-mps ... 4110245462


.. that's for MPs

Fair point about the MPs. I was of course referring to the public referendum result, which gave a snapshot poll of public opinion on one day in 2016.

According to a range of recent polls it is no longer true to say that 'voters are mostly leavers'. Which is very ironic. Because you complain that back in 2016 MPs fought to remain against the public's wishes. Whereas right now (which is what matters) MPs are in danger of taking the UK out of the EU against the public's wishes! And if you doubt that, then test it in a new referendum.

[OB1]

I bumped into this lot yesterday, apparently they knew what was best for me and insisted I listen, sounded like a load of bollox, but then I realised they didnt have any

peoples_sheeples_march_84a34bf0d957a7d0404866c36627e3ca3fc843d2.jpg

This kind of meme is quite laughable when, in reality, it was those who voted to leave who seemed to be the least informed and eager to parrot Farage's dog whistles without fact checking first. The sheep are those that demand to know "why haven't we left yet" when every news media was telling us that it would take 2 years from the implementation of A50. They are the same people that trot out uninformed bollox, as you say, like "were being told what to do by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels"; the same people who couldn't be bothered to vote for their own MEP.

[garyboy]

MP's are mostly remainers
Voters are mostly leavers

You were right for a brief moment, and by a wafer-thin margin, back in June 2016 ..

are you a spin doctor?

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/how-mps ... 4110245462


.. that's for MPs

Fair point about the MPs. I was of course referring to the public referendum result, which gave a snapshot poll of public opinion on one day in 2016.

According to a range of recent polls it is no longer true to say that 'voters are mostly leavers'. Which is very ironic. Because you complain that back in 2016 MPs fought to remain against the public's wishes. Whereas right now (which is what matters) MPs are in danger of taking the UK out of the EU against the public's wishes! And if you doubt that, then test it in a new referendum.

DEMOCRACY ... however you define it
is a CONTRACT between
the RULING CLASSES ... however you see it
and the PEOPLE .. whoever you see them to be.

When that contract is broken, the People cannot see the point in keeping faith with their belief in FAIRNESS and OPPORTUNITY for all, and that is when CHAOS seem as legitimate alternative.
EXTREMISTS on both sides, see support grow, as the PEOPLE see their dreams and aspirations begin to evaporate.
I dont think anyone actually fully agrees with our UK version of Democracy .. but at least it gives HOPE to the hard-working people of our country, and is held up, all over the world, as a blueprint to aspire to.
We should be rightly proud of our country for this, even though there may be (arguably) superior systems (Scandinavia?)

Once a vote is given ... especially in a direct-democracy people's referendum ...
that vote MUST be listened to, accknowledged, and seen to be acted upon.

Otherwise ………………………………
it is the end of DEMOCRACY as we know it … which may be a good thing or a bad thing .. depending on each persons view

[garyboy]