EU. In or out?

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DavidS
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by DavidS » Fri May 24, 2019 10:32 pm

Too many factions with too many agendas.
Maybe we need a coalition for a few years so absolutely nothing happens and it kicks people into getting things going again.
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Tonibe63
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Tonibe63 » Sat May 25, 2019 6:30 am

DavidS wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:32 pm
Too many factions with too many agendas.
Maybe we need a coalition for a few years so absolutely nothing happens and it kicks people into getting things going again.
There will always be factions and agendas but we should count ourselves lucky that they don't walk our streets with AK47's.
In our lifetime there has always been 'the left' and 'the right' and political allegiance often runs through families for many generations, as we grow up we 'learn what we live'. There is a middle ground but within my lifetime the Parties that have tried to form a 'coalition' middle ground have not had enough support and eventually fade away. In my opinion the current left and right wing of mainstream parties are getting more extreme and thus the chances of a meaningful coalition/middle ground party getting in to power is getting further away.
Open your eyes and you see what is in front of you but open your mind and you see a whole new World

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite » Sat May 25, 2019 8:19 pm

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite » Sat May 25, 2019 8:27 pm

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HedgeHopper
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by HedgeHopper » Sun May 26, 2019 6:48 am

Staying in the EU will of course do feck all to fix our homegrown system, it just means you end up with 2 layers of arseholes overseeing and dictating our lives and 2 layers of bureaucratic bollox that ensures every simple action requires years of meetings to then not be done..... instead of one.

In 1942 it took 6 months-1year to design, test and put into production a new high tech aeroplane, in the 21st century the same action (if it gets past the politics) is taking decades, it's not because we don't know how to do shit any more its because of politics, rules and the bureaucratic bollox that people who spend their lives in meetings think are more important than the action that they are deciding should or should not happen

In the first instance you have Action, in the second have a long hard pseudo-intellectual think about it, write a paper and then decide its probably not a good idea and make a law stopping anyone else in your club from actually saying feck it and doing it anyway.

You can regulate away everything you think can't be done well, but you learn shit that way
alternatively you can just fucking do it and if it doesnt work then you learned something and can make a better job next time...thats how real progress works

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by scutty » Sun May 26, 2019 9:06 am

HedgeHopper wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:48 am
In 1942 it took 6 months-1year to design, test and put into production a new high tech aeroplane, in the 21st century the same action (if it gets past the politics) is taking decades,
Do you mean during the Second World War or did you just make that up to fit your message?

Yes, there is a lot more awareness of safety, liability, responsibility and environmental impact of design and production now than there was before. Are you suggesting we strip all that away and go back to the old way of beta testing - the Hindenburg and Titanic method?

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite » Sun May 26, 2019 9:24 am

scutty wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:06 am
HedgeHopper wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:48 am
In 1942 it took 6 months-1year to design, test and put into production a new high tech aeroplane, in the 21st century the same action (if it gets past the politics) is taking decades,
Do you mean during the Second World War or did you just make that up to fit your message?

Yes, there is a lot more awareness of safety, liability, responsibility and environmental impact of design and production now than there was before. Are you suggesting we strip all that away and go back to the old way of beta testing - the Hindenburg and Titanic method?
Yeah, Scutty - just build stuff without proper testing or regs and hope for the best. Use the punters as guinea pigs. After all what can go wrong? (ahem... asbestos, ahem... tower block cladding, ahem, cough, ahem, splutter, wheeze, choke, die...).

We all know that nostalgia for the past has become an all-consuming obsession for some people of late. Rose-tinted specs are selling out. It sometime seems as though an entire ageing generation actually believes that EVERYTHING new is bad and EVERYTHING old was good.

I love some things from the old days myself, but it's important to be very selective and discerning. A beautifully made quality piece of antique furrniture - probably good. Children labouring in mines and women denied the vote - probably bad. It's not that hard to make some distinctions!

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Tonibe63 » Sun May 26, 2019 10:04 am

daveuprite wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:24 am
scutty wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:06 am
HedgeHopper wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:48 am
In 1942 it took 6 months-1year to design, test and put into production a new high tech aeroplane, in the 21st century the same action (if it gets past the politics) is taking decades,
Do you mean during the Second World War or did you just make that up to fit your message?

Yes, there is a lot more awareness of safety, liability, responsibility and environmental impact of design and production now than there was before. Are you suggesting we strip all that away and go back to the old way of beta testing - the Hindenburg and Titanic method?
Yeah, Scutty - just build stuff without proper testing or regs and hope for the best. Use the punters as guinea pigs. After all what can go wrong? (ahem... asbestos, ahem... tower block cladding, ahem, cough, ahem, splutter, wheeze, choke, die...).

We all know that nostalgia for the past has become an all-consuming obsession for some people of late. Rose-tinted specs are selling out. It sometime seems as though an entire ageing generation actually believes that EVERYTHING new is bad and EVERYTHING old was good.

I love some things from the old days myself, but it's important to be very selective and discerning. A beautifully made quality piece of antique furrniture - probably good. Children labouring in mines and women denied the vote - probably bad. It's not that hard to make some distinctions!
I'm quite sure Hedgehopper can defend himself but ........... I read his post differently. I took from it that during the second World War when we stood on our own two feet (yes we had lots of help from other nations) we managed to design and build stuff very quickly whereas today most ideas are overanalized by overpaid experts/Politicians with a vested interest in dragging their feet.
Open your eyes and you see what is in front of you but open your mind and you see a whole new World

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Africa John » Sun May 26, 2019 10:26 am

Comparing different times whilst interesting can be futile.

In the past smaller companies could do amazing things. De Havilland and the Mosquito, Concorde, the Hovercraft.

We did used to have visionary engineers with incredible ideas brought to life through their talents.

I think we need to blame over cautious board rooms putting the opinion of focus groups and investment bankers unwilling to take risks, not any H&S legislation wherever it originates.

Nobody just tries stuff anymore. ROI has to be almost guaranteed within a too short timescale rather than a "do you think we could build a ...?" attitude.

I have a lathe, mill, shaper, bandsaw and subscribe to home engineering forums and magazine and get inspired in what very talented people can build in their sheds



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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by garyboy » Sun May 26, 2019 3:49 pm

in the past.. in wartime .. we could see the common enemy and came together to fight for our common good …

now .. although the geography is uncannily similar .. we are divided as to what the enemy is !!





so many benefits .. so many commitments

so much given … so much taken away

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