EU. In or out?

[DavidS]

Rory Stewart for PM--he has a brain and is an ex diplomat etc--but the Tories NEVER vote for the best qualified person on principle--so it will be Boris--the Trump clone!

Are you joking?, heres a taste of this pillocks integrity.......

Speaking to presenter Emma Barnett, he claimed 80% of the British public supported the prime minister’s Brexit deal.

Pressed by Emma as to where he had got the information, he said: “I’m producing a number to try to illustrate what I believe.”

Must be a relative of Diane Abbot

[OB1]

He reminds me of a Dickensian undertaker.

Interesting that, yet again, the UK will get another prime minister it never voted for. Obviously, we all know that the system allows it, and you vote in GEs for the party, not the leader, but with this upcoming tory internal election it will be over 50% of all PMs who never had a public mandate.

John Major may not have been voted in during a General Election, however, he did win one in 1992, so he did actually have a mandate.

[daveuprite]

John Major may not have been voted in during a General Election, however, he did win one in 1992, so he did actually have a mandate.

Yeah, very true. But there was a period in which Major was PM purely by virtue of the ousting of Thatcher and an internal tory party selection process. It wasn't until 1992 that he had a GE mandate. In that short period without one he presided over the Maastricht Treaty signing and the 91 Gulf War.

And in a few weeks it looks like the UK will again have a new prime minister, at a time of national crisis, who will have been chosen by 313 tory MPs and just 124,000 tory party members.

The principle that the electorate votes for a party, which becomes a government, rather than for an individual as prime minister, is all very well - and perhaps less of an issue in the past - but these days the personal ideology and prejudices of one person appointed PM has a disproportionate impact on the country's direction. Just look at Teresa May's anti-immigration stance and her poor negotiating skills. She has had a huge impact on the way brexit has been managed (hardly the right word), above and beyond the blame that can be assigned to the government as a whole. Imagine the nightmare of Johnson as PM. A bumbling upper-class opportunist twit with a track record of being totally out of his depth. He shouldn't be allowed anywhere near government, let alone number ten, and especially not without endorsement from the general public.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

Interesting to note though, that at the time of the 1940 crisis, Churchill became PM with the support of the Libs and Labour, and in the teeth of opposition from the right-wing of the Conservatives who wanted to do a deal with Hitler.

As George Orwell wrote at the time "the Tories have always hated Churchill"...thanks to his record as a Liberal Government social reformer before the First World War.

The Government led by Churchill in WWII was an anti-fascist coalition, including Labour and Liberals. Churchill was constantly sniped at and undermined by the right of the Tory party, which he saw off thanks to the support he gained from those to his political left!

Rees-Mogg and Johnson both like being photographed under pictures of Churchill, but in reality they hate everything he stood for (World peace though European unity, Wage Councils to protect low-paid workers, support for unemployed workers etc).

[OB1]

I remember when May was "elected" by her peers and there were calls from the left for a general election to prove that the Conservatives had the mandate to rule with their new leader. At the same time, they conveniently forgot that Gordon Brown ascended to the position of Prime Minister in a similar (unchallenged) manner to Theresa May just a few years earlier.

I just wish that certain Euroskeptics would stop perpetuating the lie that people such as Donald Tusk are "unelected bureaucrats": just like the leaders of any of the UK parties, members of the European Council are elected by the member states. The election that we are having this week will elect our representatives to the EU parliament: they are the people who elect those above them, just like what happens within the UK parliament. The trouble is, Nigel Farage will call them unelected bureaucrats, then the Daily Mail will repeat his comment and the unthinking public will regurgitate the same myth... In reality, what they are saying is that "I didn't vote for them". But, then again, they probably won't vote in the forthcoming EU election...

[garyboy]

Life seemed so much simpler when we had a king
There was loads of pink on the world map.
Sweets were 3p a packet.
Crisps were 4p a packet.
Britain was the best in the world.
There was Democracy.
Fairness and Justice .
Black n white TV came out.
And people had respect.
Then I grew up(sort of)
and bought a bike

[Trev]

Life seemed so much simpler when we had a king
There was loads of pink on the world map.
Sweets were 3p a packet.
Crisps were 4p a packet.
Britain was the best in the world.
There was Democracy.
Fairness and Justice .
Black n white TV came out.
And people had respect.
Then I grew up(sort of)
and bought a bike

The only difference was that we were far more ignorant of the bad news than we are today ..... and black & white tele was sh*te

[Spike941]

Again, probably not to everyone’s taste.

[DavidS]

I remember when May was "elected" by her peers and there were calls from the left for a general election to prove that the Conservatives had the mandate to rule with their new leader. At the same time, they conveniently forgot that Gordon Brown ascended to the position of Prime Minister in a similar (unchallenged) manner to Theresa May just a few years earlier.

I just wish that certain Euroskeptics would stop perpetuating the lie that people such as Donald Tusk are "unelected bureaucrats": just like the leaders of any of the UK parties, members of the European Council are elected by the member states. The election that we are having this week will elect our representatives to the EU parliament: they are the people who elect those above them, just like what happens within the UK parliament. The trouble is, Nigel Farage will call them unelected bureaucrats, then the Daily Mail will repeat his comment and the unthinking public will regurgitate the same myth... In reality, what they are saying is that "I didn't vote for them". But, then again, they probably won't vote in the forthcoming EU election...

I may be wrong...probably am...but we can ultimately get rid of any MP or MEP. But we, the great European unwashed, can’t get rid of the EU bureaucrats, which is where the problem lies.

[daveuprite]

I remember when May was "elected" by her peers and there were calls from the left for a general election to prove that the Conservatives had the mandate to rule with their new leader. At the same time, they conveniently forgot that Gordon Brown ascended to the position of Prime Minister in a similar (unchallenged) manner to Theresa May just a few years earlier.

I just wish that certain Euroskeptics would stop perpetuating the lie that people such as Donald Tusk are "unelected bureaucrats": just like the leaders of any of the UK parties, members of the European Council are elected by the member states. The election that we are having this week will elect our representatives to the EU parliament: they are the people who elect those above them, just like what happens within the UK parliament. The trouble is, Nigel Farage will call them unelected bureaucrats, then the Daily Mail will repeat his comment and the unthinking public will regurgitate the same myth... In reality, what they are saying is that "I didn't vote for them". But, then again, they probably won't vote in the forthcoming EU election...

I may be wrong...probably am...but we can ultimately get rid of any MP or MEP. But we, the great European unwashed, can’t get rid of the EU bureaucrats, which is where the problem lies.

In a similar way, you can't 'get rid of' the mandarin civil servants in Whitehall. Nor would you want to. They bring many years of experience, understanding and diplomatic skills to the business of government. Behind the angry facade of temporary political battles, there is always, in any governing establishment, a large group of people quietly carrying out the wishes of their political masters whilst gently reminding them of the consequences of similar wishes before. You don't think that the Chancellor or the Health Secretary actually DOES anything, do you?

This evil euro-bureaucrat myth is exactly that. A myth. Spread very successfully by the Daily Mail, UKIP, Farage etc.

I've been a part of European cooperation projects, back in a saner time, and the things you remember most about them is that they are virtuous, slow, steeped in boring audits and checks, and quietly collaborative. Sometimes very useful but generally harmless and rather dull. Certainly not threatening to sovereignty or power-grabbing in any way. Just the paperwork alone would prevent that! If you could level any real criticism at the workings of the EU, it is that the organisation is paperwork-heavy. An argument for reform, definitely not withdrawal.

The current anti-EU hysteria is a powerful invention of those who are looking for figure-heads they can oppose. This is how the extreme/far-right works and exactly how it delivered mass acquiescence in early 1930s Germany.