EU. In or out?

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daveuprite
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite » Tue May 14, 2019 11:40 am

garyboy wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:36 am


Remainers will not attack Mr Redwoods script (wot i posted) .. because what it purports is what, in fact, they want .. a close tie with the workings of the EU, .. but ignore the `dictatorial` methods of the EU administration, which is intent on taking sovereignty from us
(we want our own administration and leadership .. just look at how good it is doing :lol: )
No, that's not it at all. 'Remainers' want the UK to stay in the EU as now (the clue's in the name...). I can't see any point in leaving the EU and its manifold advantages just to have a tie with the EU that makes the UK a rule-taker which is not sat at the table helping to make the rules. There's no point to that whatsoever. These middle-ground compromise deals that are being cooked up would be entirely unsatisfactory for everyone as well as stretching out the partial leaving process by many years. Conversely a 'no deal' crash out offers nothing but job losses, paperwork, delays, shortages and the end of the UK's role on the world stage.

Use of the word 'dictatorship' in reference to the EU merely reveals how little Redwood and others who use it know about what living in a true dictatorship involves, and destroys his credibility as a serious commentator.

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by garyboy » Tue May 14, 2019 10:11 pm

Fixit


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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Spike941 » Tue May 14, 2019 11:16 pm

Or this version

The rising dissatisfaction with the EU among certain quarters of Finnish society has even led to some of Terho’s former colleagues within the Finns Party to suggest that Finland should follow in the footsteps of the United Kingdom; and leave the EU - a position coined by the advocates as a ‘Fixit’. However, despite the prevailing criticisms and his own belief that there are aspects of EU policy and governance that require reviewing and improving, the minister says he does not believe that ‘Fixit’ is currently a viable option.

“The EU must remain a cooperation of independent member states and the areas we need to cooperate on are the economy, the building of the internal market, defence, environmental issues, education and research,” the minister argues. “We must fight for a better EU, not to get out of the EU.”

Sources Yle / Ronan Browne / Eddy Hawkins

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by scutty » Wed May 15, 2019 8:11 am

garyboy wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:11 pm
Fixit

Did you Google her? You would imagine that someone with those opinions, with the passion in her beliefs to write to a UK newspaper, would have some web presence. Something at all........a web site, Facebook page, LinkedIn profile, mentions on Finnish news site...........nothing.......

Or may be she is just made up to further validate someone else's view point which is then repeatedly re-posted across social media further validating the original post as 'fact'

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by garyboy » Wed May 15, 2019 9:32 am

https://www.bing.com/search?q=minna+moi ... 575864afcb



there u go, Andy .. this link even has her phone number
(she refused a date with me

https://www.mps.fi/en/contact-us/person ... minna.html

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by scutty » Wed May 15, 2019 9:50 am

Yes, I also Google'd that name, do you see a political activist anywhere in your list? I think you just reinforced my point.

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by DavidS » Wed May 15, 2019 9:51 am

You don’t need an internet or social media presence to have a valid opinion and strong beliefs. In fact, maybe it’s for the better.

A new European / worldwide trading bloc without the political interference would be a positive move but needs a strong country like Britain to lead it. Oh! That’s what we so enthusiastically started with all those years ago before it got polluted (I’m not going to use the word ‘corrupted’).
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by scutty » Wed May 15, 2019 11:00 am

Sorry, my point wasn't to belittle Gary in any way or even really to say that the link he posted was fake. My point is that the power of social media and it's simple ability to immediately generate fact based on the validation of re-posting has become, in my opinion, the strongest route to voters today.
There is zero regulation on what you can post on social media (of any form, including forums like this), no checks on how much is spent, who's paying for it, who created it, even if it is true at all. Can you imagine if this type of deregulation was applied to TV political advertising? What could appear in the press if there was no regulation at all?

I am beginning to think social media may well be the worst thing to happen to the human race since the start of organised religion - and here's the kicker, I still use it! (social media that is, I'm a devout, practising atheist and nothing is changing that). Even ignoring the political power SM clearly has, the additive and harmful nature of continual public validation the SM promotes is, in my opinion, corrosive. You just need to see what happens when the new Horsemen of the Apocalypse arrive, 'No Wifi', 'No Data' and 'No battery' - to see the addictive nature of SM.

Sorry - rant over - back to EU discussions

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by OB1 » Wed May 15, 2019 11:15 am

scutty wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:00 am
Sorry, my point wasn't to belittle Gary in any way or even really to say that the link he posted was fake. My point is that the power of social media and it's simple ability to immediately generate fact based on the validation of re-posting has become, in my opinion, the strongest route to voters today.
There is zero regulation on what you can post on social media (of any form, including forums like this), no checks on how much is spent, who's paying for it, who created it, even if it is true at all. Can you imagine if this type of deregulation was applied to TV political advertising? What could appear in the press if there was no regulation at all?

I am beginning to think social media may well be the worst thing to happen to the human race since the start of organised religion - and here's the kicker, I still use it! (social media that is, I'm a devout, practising atheist and nothing is changing that). Even ignoring the political power SM clearly has, the additive and harmful nature of continual public validation the SM promotes is, in my opinion, corrosive. You just need to see what happens when the new Horsemen of the Apocalypse arrive, 'No Wifi', 'No Data' and 'No battery' - to see the addictive nature of SM.

Sorry - rant over - back to EU discussions

I did something interesting yesterday: I deleted all the cookies in the browser that I use for social media (best to keep it separate) and all the paid for crap seemed to disappear leaving just interesting stuff from my friends and family. Probably worth doing every so often to save falling further down the rabbit hole into the echo chamber of doom!
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Jak* » Wed May 15, 2019 1:46 pm

I would say that we should question all media, whether social or nor. Gary seems to have posted a picture of what looks like a letter to a newspaper. I do not know if this came from a paper or not, or whether it was a Finish or British newspaper. From the type face it looks like a tabloid. It could be from the local racist nutters weekly for all I know.
It appears to come from the Yellow Vest UK Facebook page but they do not seem to state where it comes from. The yellow vest UK movement seems to have little in common with the French movement, but to be another group who seem to believe, despite all evidence to the contrary, that austerity is the fault of the EU. It is the fault of the Conservative party no one else, unless you count the Lib Dem’s for betraying the electorate and their members in 2010.
It is the statement about ‘not slackening off in order to get the Brexit that we voted for’ that I would question.
Which Brexit is that? Every leave voter I speak to has a different view? Which of course is where the argument about respecting the majority falls down. The only majority that was clear was for Remain because they all voted for the same thing.
Cheers Jak

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