EU. In or out?

[Jak*]

If you have not heard this give it a listen. It is one of the most coherent speeches I have heard yet on Brexit

Betty Boothroyd’s view on Brexit and the need for a second referendum. It is a shame that there are so few articulate and intelligent politicians left in this country on any side.
Cheers Jak

[catcitrus]

Has anyone watched the three programme series on BBC 4--"the EU--10 years of turmoil"--boy it was interesting to see the spats between Juncker and Tusk, The debate with Turkey, and Merkel trying the humanitarian approach and getting kicked by Hungary etc over the immigration crisis--Tusk came over as very hard nosed IMO, and his attitude to "foreigners" worried me (and that includes us)--and we now have Italy and France at loggerheads, French riot police kicking the sh1t out of everyone and firing almost lethal rounds, Most of the French speed cameras vandalised, Catalonia still trying for independence, Italy in recession and so on--in that respect we need to stay at arms length until the dust settles a bit IMO.

[AlanHolt]

Just to set the record straight on Catalunya, Spain gave the Basque region autonomy. Catalunya asked for the same deal, Spain said no, so Catalunya said they wanted to become independent. It's nothing to do with the EU.

[daveuprite]

Just to set the record straight on Catalunya, Spain gave the Basque region autonomy. Catalunya asked for the same deal, Spain said no, so Catalunya said they wanted to become independent. It's nothing to do with the EU.

Yep, exactly.

And the Gilet Jaune protests also have little to do with the EU generally. They are a mix of protests against Macron's internal domestic taxation policies and other matters of inequality within the republic. The activists are a right mixture politically, but there is no significant anti-EU presence and there is virtually no Frexit sentiment whatsoever in France. Vandalising cameras is a by-product and basically a public service being carried out for us! Again nothing to do with the EU, just as it isn't when it happens in the UK. I know a few local GJs, and I've talked with others on their little barricade in Bellac, and you can be sure that their grievances are definitely not anti-EU motivated. In France the farmer is King, and quite a lot of the protesters are farmers, most of whom benefit from EU agricultural policy - and they know it. Italy entering recession is also down to internal fiscal policy and management, not directly related to anything agreed or implemented by the EU.

Of course none of that means that the EU doesn't have some serious issues to tackle these days, including brexit obviously. But the gilet jaune thing in France and the Italian debt crisis aren't directly related to the EU. More worrying to the EU are the ascendance of far-right politics in Hungary, how to accommodate unrest in North Africa, Syrian War and Libyan migration, poor relations with the Trump regime, and Putin's security/energy threats in the East. Brexit is a significant but relatively minor irritation in comparison.

However what CAN be established as a fact is that UK manufacturing is now officially in recession, and the uncertainty of brexit plus the threat of no deal are the cause.

[garyboy]

when the Titanic sunk, it was nothing to do with the iceberg ..
it was fire in the heart of it
that weakened the fabric that held it together

[Jak*]

It does feel a little bit like we are on the Titanic now. With the MPs being the band playing on, trying to convince people that there is no danger. Unfortunately it will only be the rich that they have space for in the life rafts.
Cheers Jak

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

Here's some positive news...the UK has signed a continuity deal with the Faroe Islands (population 50778) so trade can continue with this important partner post Brexit.

Speaking outside his Somerset stately Home, Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg told assembled tenants and villagers. "You see, I said everything would work out for the best" before some local primary-school children recited:

"God bless the squire and his relations
and keep us in our proper stations."

[catcitrus]

The point I was making was that the EU (with its laws and policies) is not all sweetness and light--and I don't think that you can simply say that that the troubles and grievances are nothing to do with the EU--now back in the day of the relatively simple and hands off EEC free trade agreements I would agree--each country managing its own affairs and simply creating common standards for approval such that tariff free trade could be carried out--I'm all for that. However, the unrest cannot be ignored as can be seen here from Paris.

[Oblix]

I was a hard remainer and was shocked by the referendum results like everyone else in London, plus being in financial services; knowing all the clearing that’ll be lost ! severly knocking the nations gdp and the sector.

But in all honesty, with having had 2 years of further insight.. i’m now proud we’re leaving. It will hurt ripping off the bandage.. how bad will it hurt ?:- not sure ... but taking a look at the EU trajectory with fresh eye’s, i personally think we’re dodging a bullet.

If we do stay : we’ll be dragged down with the EU collapse,
leave..: and we’re still gonna be dragged down with it

one small positive from the latter : freedom to re-establish external trading partners.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

In the event of a no-deal Brexit, I fully expect Scotland and NI to demand independence from the UK so they can rejoin the EU. NI quite possibly as part of an Irish Federation or similar.

Which will leave just England and Wales....not the United Kingdom, not even Great Britain. And then I suspect a political division between the prosperous South-East of England and the rest of the nation will soon emerge.