EU. In or out?

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scutty
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by scutty » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:04 pm


Adventure Bike Rider New Issue Out Now
Jak*
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Jak* » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:06 pm

One of the strongest arguments for a second referendum is that since the original one nearly 1.5 million people will have passed away. Statitically the majority of these will, if they voted, have voted to leave. A slightly larger number of young people will have become eligible to vote, statistically the majority of these will have voted Remain. If, as many of the leaders of the Leave campaign have predicted, we do not see the economic benefits of leaving for 30 to 50 years, those young people will spend the majority of their adult lives living with the consequences of a decision enacted after they were able to vote, but decided upon in an election they were not allowed to vote in. That is a recipe for discontent and it is probable that they will force another referendum in five to ten years time. If the EU then allowed us back in we are unlikely to have the good deal we have now, particularly in relation to our rebate and the right to veto.
Whilst I would agree that a lot of Remain voters voted for rational economic reasons and a lot of Leave voters did so for ideological reasons and xenophobia, there were those on both sides who voted for other reasons. Some leave voters made their choice because of lies about the economic benefits of leaving. Some remain voters voted for ideological reasons, such as peace in Western Europe in our lifetime and being part of a wonderful multi national and cultural organisation. It is of course possible that we will be better off economically as soon as we leave, however at the moment no one has a clear plan of how that will happen. Give them another two and a half years and they may have worked it out.
Cheers Jak

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Jak* » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:16 pm

This is a great quote from David Davis ‘If democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.’
One of the few things that he has ever said that I wholeheartedly agree with.
Cheers Jak

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garyboy
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by garyboy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:33 pm

Wikiquotes ..
In the case of a word like DEMOCRACY, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of régime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning. Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different.[1]
-George Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Jak* » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:41 pm

The quote from Davis is one from the Led by Donkees campaign which uses their own quotes to highlight the hypocrisy of many of our current political leaders.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bydonkeys?lang=en
This campaign is really taking off and hopefully will spread across the country.
I am sure that the Leave campaign do not have a monopoly on hypocrisy but they do seem to have a particular talent for saying stupid things.
An interesting question that came out of a radio four programme this evening. If the vote to enact article 50 had been a secret ballot, which way do you think it would have gone?
Cheers Jak

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by garyboy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:15 pm

one thing for certain ..despite all the anti-campaigns and remoaners bitterness, they lost the vote, and Britain WILL leave the EU.

on what terms is another matter, and no doubt these altercations between EU and UK will leave a bitter taste to any future relationships.

there are strong signs that the EU is showing cracks; France/Italy, indebtedness, yellow vests, right wing and nationalist growth, US friction, German decline etc

perhaps the UK leaving the EU at this `early` stage will stand us in good stead, to recover and build, when the EU eventually fragments???

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Spike941 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:17 am

garyboy wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:15 pm
one thing for certain ..despite all the anti-campaigns and remoaners bitterness, they lost the vote, and Britain WILL leave the EU.
Let’s hope we don’t lose the next one.

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by HedgeHopper » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:11 am

Spike, it's a muddle and how things turn out are still in the air, my guess (and that's all it is) is still that we are not going to be allowed to leave, too many sore losers

BUT the one thing that has any certainty at all is that we won't have a second referendum, it's a ridiculous and dangerous proposal tabled by delusional Nutters and backed by fools.

OOps...nearly forgot the :D

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by AlanHolt » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:19 am

garyboy wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:15 pm
one thing for certain ..despite all the anti-campaigns and remoaners bitterness, they lost the vote, and Britain WILL leave the EU.

there are strong signs that the EU is showing cracks; France/Italy, indebtedness, yellow vests, right wing and nationalist growth, US friction, German decline etc

perhaps the UK leaving the EU at this `early` stage will stand us in good stead, to recover and build, when the EU eventually fragments???
The words win and lost are thrown around as though its a a group of kids playing football. We have all lost as a result of leave winning.

It was announced this week that Spain will not comply with the wishes of France and Germany regarding the European migration issue, further proof (if it was needed) that the EU doesn't dictate what we will and won't do.

Unemployment in Spain has also dropped by 10% in the past year. Thanks to EU funding, derelict farms are being brought back into production thanks to new irrigation systems and improved roads, which has created lots of new jobs.

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:43 am

Personally I support a properly joined up federal Europe, but of course not everyone wants that. So here's a splendid solution to the brexit crisis for those who believe in UK exceptionalism:

Image

As Joni Mitchell said, "You don't know what you've got till it's gone"
Last edited by daveuprite on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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