EU. In or out?

[simonw]

That World at One thing was incredible, we heard from the Japanese guy and then a few minutes later the tory denied what he had said. Is this the best we can do for politicians in this country?

Post-referendum, David Davis said: “What is important is not what is said. It’s whether it’s challenged, in the first instance, and then the British public can make a judgment." (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 44611.html). In other words, it doesn't matter (to David Davis) whether politicians tell the truth or not. So there you have it - it's completely ok to lie about anything, even big, important things.

[garyboy]

the eu was not formed from wanting Europe to stop fighting itself .. that was the united nations!


the eec or ec or eu was formed out of a desire for a trading partnership. (allegedly_ .. )


I remember pre 1975 being told that there would be cheap food, cheap butter fish etc etc and looked forward to that for many years after the formation.

of course, it never came.
what we had was butter mountains, other mountains of foods, wine lakes, etc .. .. .. due to the cap.!
cap was or is the common agricultural policy ..
this was run mostly by france and germany to protects THEIR farmers by stockpiling food and so keeping food prices high
not low

[Pint Master]

From my conversations with folk from both sides it seems that remainers are motivated more by vested interests than national ones.

Financially, I've done very well (five-figure well) out of Brexit, so far. This is thanks to the crash in the value of the £ which followed the Leave vote.

I don't expect my good fortune to continue once we are out, and am planning for a poorer future.

Lets hope not, it has had an adverse affect on my business for the last 18 months but eye to the future hopefully a price worth paying.

[garyboy]

`democracy` is where the subservient population of a country believe they count, as they are given a VOTE that they can use every 4 or 5 years to change their dictator.

a `dictatorship` is where the same dictator can rule unopposed for as long as the subservient class get too pissed of with their overexploitation.

the eu is a dictatorship
as no one is elected, the leaders can do what they want to shaft the state members, and their autocaracy is only challenge when the common subservient people of one state start wearing yellow vests, or use their old democratic right to VOTE

the eu would like these rights of `quiet vote` and `quiet riot` legally removed

[garyboy]

a genelal election is what happens at a Chinese orgy

[scutty]

the eu is a dictatorship
as no one is elected

You can't seriously believe this?!?

[daveuprite]

the eu is a dictatorship
as no one is elected,

Nonsense. So you are either:

(1) Lying in a rather sad attempt to make your point more powerfully, or

(2) Ignorant of how the EU works.

Both are a bit embarrassing really. Why on earth do you come out with this stuff? It sometimes feels a bit like arguing with flat-earthers. There are a few people (not many) who occasionally come up with an argument for brexit that's worth listening to. They would be ashamed to have you on their side.

Just make your case based on facts. If your case is strong enough then you will be able to bring facts to support your argument. It's only those with a weak case or none at all that need to resort to lies and myths.

[garyboy]

this article seems very informative and unbiased ?

http://www.democraticaudit.com/2016/06/ ... reaucrats/

``This claim mainly refers to the EU Commission: the EU’s executive body. It is true that the Commission President and the individual Commissioners are not directly elected by the peoples of Europe. So, in that sense, we cannot “throw the scoundrels out”. It is also true that under the provisions of the EU treaty, the Commission has the sole right to propose EU legislation, which, if passed, is then binding on all the EU member states and the citizens of these member states.`` ..

``So, it is easy to claim that the EU is run by ‘unelected bureaucrats’, but the reality is quite a long way from that. Although, having said that, I would be one of the first to acknowledge that the EU does not feel as democratic as it could or should be – as I have spent much of my academic career writing about this issue. But, this is perhaps more to do with the stage of development of the EU than because of the procedures that are now in place for choosing and removing the Commission, which are far more ‘democratic’ than they were 5 or 10 years ago.``

[AlanHolt]

Very selective quoting there Garyboy.

The Commission can only propose laws in those areas where the EU governments have unanimously agreed to allow it to do under the EU treaty. Put another way, the Commission can only propose EU laws in areas where the UK government and the House of Commons has allowed it to do so.

Also, ‘proposing’ is not the same as ‘deciding’. A Commission proposal only becomes law if it is approved by both a qualified-majority in the EU Council

I could go on...

[scutty]

this article seems very informative and unbiased ?

http://www.democraticaudit.com/2016/06/ ... reaucrats/

``This claim mainly refers to the EU Commission: the EU’s executive body. It is true that the Commission President and the individual Commissioners are not directly elected by the peoples of Europe. So, in that sense, we cannot “throw the scoundrels out”. It is also true that under the provisions of the EU treaty, the Commission has the sole right to propose EU legislation, which, if passed, is then binding on all the EU member states and the citizens of these member states.`` ..

``So, it is easy to claim that the EU is run by ‘unelected bureaucrats’, but the reality is quite a long way from that. Although, having said that, I would be one of the first to acknowledge that the EU does not feel as democratic as it could or should be – as I have spent much of my academic career writing about this issue. But, this is perhaps more to do with the stage of development of the EU than because of the procedures that are now in place for choosing and removing the Commission, which are far more ‘democratic’ than they were 5 or 10 years ago.``

None of that quote supports your dictator statement?!!?