EU. In or out?

[Brenhden]

they also cannot grasp that they are traitors to the idea of uk democracy



not by moaning about the result of the referendum
but by demanding a second vote

I think that name calling is a surefire way to entrench people's opinions and further divide our ruined nation. It acheives the opposite of what we all need which is the ability to listen to each other, have an open mind, collaborate, and unite.

[Brenhden]

I hope this is just a coincidence. I grew up in Suffolk, it barely has enough jobs as it is.

BBC News - Philips to close Suffolk factory putting 430 jobs at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46907026

[Pint Master]

So, what is Comrade Corbyn’s angle.
Now he’s refusing to chat unless No Deal is discounted.
Seems to me it’s proving he hasn’t a clue and is just delaying and can then say none of it was his fault.....if he lives long enough without exploding. He can’t speak in parliament without a spittly red huge face.

To discount a No Deal Exit whilst frying to negotiate a deal is like going into a showroom a refusing to leave until you've bought a bike, only its worse because you'd be paying a £billion a month whilst there.

[HedgeHopper]

One thing I seriously didnt have a clue about (ok there are plenty of things I dont have a clue about, but in this context)
...How the feck can you call our parliamentary system democratic?, the amount of power that the Speaker has is ridiculous, I honestly didn't know, I've been watching closely of late and the way it seems to work is apart from shouting louder than your opponent and coming up with 'clever' quips and in jokes it's largely down to being in favour with that bellowing little twat on his throne ......astounding

Anyway, I've said for about a year now that Brexit will not be allowed to happen and I still think that the political elite and big business will ensure this is so, but I am ever hopefull.

[HedgeHopper]

<snip> a plain and simple instruction to leave the EU

What exactly does "leave the EU" mean?

Where is the facepalm smiley when you need it?

[Jak*]

As much as I hate to say it there are a lot of our MPs you have to feel sorry for. Imagine your constituents voted two and a half years ago to leave, you would feel bound to try and honour that vote, but many of those who voted may have now passed on, some may have changed their minds, some obviously are still in favour. Apart from a few who write to you or turn up to your surgery you are not really sure what they now think. The situation is even worse if you are representing a constituency where you have been told if there is a hard Brexit thousands of jobs would go. Which way should you vote now? Either way you can be accused of not doing your job. All of that is made worse by the prospect of a compromise deal. That will never satisfy some voters who would still want to leave no mater what or those who realise that we would have been better off remaining.
You can see why so many MPs want another referendum with the deal on the paper. It makes a lot of sense really.
How long after a vote does it still hold validity? Does the vote in 2016 invalidate the one to join the EEC or not? Whilst the EEC has been superseded by the EU the customs union is perhaps closer to the EEC so should we not stay in that because that is what we voted to do all those years ago? After all not to do so would surely be undemocratic.
Cheers Jak

[Scott_rider]

I googled the wording of the referendum that we all voted in...”Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”...and that was it. No mention of the process or the terms or the timescale. Of course, since then we’ve all learnt about Article 50 and the divorce terms or lack of them. It seems to my simplistic mind that the wording was at fault and has created the mess that we’re now in, regardless of which way we all voted. So, if the Government can’t even get the wording correct on such a massive issue then how on earth can we expect them to actually sort out the issue they created? Unfortunately, I think the only way forward will be a second vote by the public on the terms and on the timescale.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

I think what the current crisis has exposed is the futility of trying to distil a very complex process down into a simple one-line question.

The person who asked this question knew that all along, which is why he walked away the morning after.

And, notably, none of the 'serious' pro-Brexit campaigners were actually prepared to keep to a consistent position.

Wind the clock back, and you will find many who were supporting the idea of a second referendum on any deal struck, or who were saying that leaving the EU wouldn't mean leaving the single market.

The leaving process was grossly oversimplified by them.

"The easiest negotiations ever" "Done in an afternoon" "Bypass Brussels and go straight to Berlin."

Yeah....right

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

they also cannot grasp that they are traitors to the idea of uk democracy



not by moaning about the result of the referendum
but by demanding a second vote

Bear in mind, the UK courts determined that the result of the referendum was 'advisory' to our sovereign parliament, and that parliament should have the last word on the final deal.

The Members of the House of Commons are the representatives of the people...therefore it is quite in order, and democratic, for 'the people' to lobby Parliament during the course of this debate.

[simonw]

<snip> a plain and simple instruction to leave the EU

What exactly does "leave the EU" mean?

Where is the facepalm smiley when you need it?

No, really, it's a serious question. What does "leave the EU" mean?